Military Chat

hi
I am not sure if anyone can help me as this is a real long shot...

however there is a story in our family that my GG grandfather (James Madden, born Paddington London in 1869) met up with his two sons whilst all were fighting in during WW1 - they were all fighting in different regions in France I believe.

his sons were: Henry madden born 7th may 1896 and James Madden born about 1899 - born in Paddington / Marylebone area of London

I think my GG grandfather was in the cavalierly as i have a photo of him with a horse - apparently he wanted to bring the horse back after the war as he loved it so much but was told this was not possible.

I dont know how to find any of their army / military records - where would i start? i have no other information sadly.
is this a lost cause?

Welcome to the boards, Ann

First, can you tell us more about the family, please, so that we can pinpoint the right men?

Who did James (the father) marry?

I'm having trouble finding a Madden family in the 1901 census with a father and two sons of the ages and names you give.

This would appear to be the birth of Henry:

MADDEN, HENRY mmn SMITH
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in PADDINGTON Volume 01A Page 59

But I can't find the marriage of a James Madden to a Smith.
Nor can I find the birth of a James Madden with mmn Smith in 1899 +/- 2

Is this the family?

Henry Madden
in the 1901 England Census
Name Henry Madden
Age 4
Estimated Birth Year abt 1897
Relation to Head Son
Gender Male
Father James Madden
Mother Ada Madden
Birth Place Paddington, London, England
Civil parish Paddington
Search Photos
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish St Mary
County/Island London
Country England
Registration district Paddington
Sub-registration district St Mary, Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel 07
Neighbors
Piece 2
Folio 90
Page number 47
Household schedule number 389
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James Madden 29 Head
Ada Madden 25 Wife
Henry Madden 4 Son
James Madden 2 Son
Violet Madden 1 Daughter

Violet's birth:

MADDEN, VIOLET ISABELLA mmn SMITH
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in PADDINGTON Volume 01A Page 49


The parents didn't marry until 1901.

Ada Smith
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938
Name Ada Smith
Gender Female
Marriage Age 25
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1876
Marriage Date 22 Apr 1901
Marriage Place Saint Matthew, Saint Marylebone: Maida Hill, Westminster, England
Father William Smith
Spouse James Madden
Register Type Parish Register


James Madden
in the 1911 England Census
Name James Madden
Age in 1911 40
Estimated Birth Year abt 1871
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place Paddington
Civil parish Paddington
County/Island London
Country England
Street Address 3 Dartington Terrace
Marital Status Married
Years Married 20
Estimated Marriage Year 1891
Occupation Carman
Registration District Number 1
Sub-registration district Paddington Central
ED, institution, or vessel 17
Piece 58
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James Madden 40 Head
Ada Madden 40 Wife
Henry Madden 14 Son
James Madden 12 Son
George Madden 10 Son
Violet Madden 7 Daughter
Daisy Madden 5 Daughter
Nellie Madden 2 Daughter


If James and the two sons were in France at the same time, it must have been towards the end of WW!, given the boy's ages.

Huge numbers of WW1 service records were destroyed in a fire.

Unfortunately I can't see any WW1 records which are definitely for any of the three Maddens.

hello - thank you for reading my post - yes this is my family :)

I do not know how to go about researching their military records without knowing which regiments they were in?
Is this a dead end for me?

thank you again and a happy new year to you all x

As I said, huge numbers (most) of WW1 records were destroyed.

There may be no records to be found, in which case, yes, you have hit a dead end.

If their records exist, they would be on Ancestry or Find My Past, and once you had found those details you could order copies of the full records from either MOD or the National Archives - though they would take many months to be sent by post.
But I can't see any such records on Ancestry.

ok thank you for the information it is much appreciated.
I am sad that I am unable to find out anything of their military service but it sounds like there is nothing more I can do
all the best for the new year x

Do you have the 1921 census for the family

1921 Census Of England & Wales
18, Oliver Mews, Paddington, London & Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
James Madden Head Male 1868 52 London, England Horse, Carman Carter Peterson Loy Ltd
Ada Madden Wife Female 1872 49 Paddington, London, England Kitchen, Hand Maison Lyons
James Madden Son Male 1899 21 Paddington, London, England Motor, Driver Selfridger & Bo
Daisy Madden - Female 1904 17 Marylebone, London, England Packer Caleys Ltd
George Madden Son Male 1905 15 Marylebone, London, England Horse Carman H Smith Green Groar
Nelly Madden Daughter Female 1908 13 Paddington, London, England - -
Gladys Madden Daughter Female 1914 7 Paddington, London, England - -

Do you the whereabouts of each member of the family's WW1 medals??

If they received any of the below, then you would have their service number, regiment etc embossed upon them

1914 Star
The recipient's service number, rank, name and unit were impressed on the back.

1914-1915 Star
The recipient's service number, rank, name and unit were impressed on the reverse.

British War Medal (1914-1920)
The recipient's service number, rank, name and unit were inscribed on the rim of the medal.

Every soldier would have received
UK, WWI, British Army Medal Roll Index Cards, 1914-1920

Some received
UK, WWI, British Army Pension Records, 1914-1920

If you can find a service record the best part of the record to look at is the Next of Kin or Married section, this would help to confirm your family member as they can include a home address

If the photograph of your GG Grandfather shows him in uniform and he is wearing a cap or jacket, his regimentmal cap badge or shoulder epaulettes may help to identify which regiment/battalion he was serving with.

I will search Fold3 for results

Of the 72 results for James Madden on Fold3 I have enclosed those personnel with a "London (area)" regiment or those regiments that required the use of horses ie Artillery, Service Corps

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex) Regiment, Labour Corps
Regiment Number 2911, 450161
Conflict Period World War I
Served For United Kingdom

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Army Service Corps
Regiment Number T3/022651
Conflict Period World War I
Served For United Kingdom

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Royal Field Artillery
Regiment Number 90168
Conflict Period World War I
Served For United Kingdom

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Rifle Brigade
Regiment Number B2461
Conflict Period World War I

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex) Regiment, Suffolk Regiment
Regiment Number 62, 52259
Conflict Period World War I

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment RHA Depot ****Royal Horse Artillery****
Regiment Number 606158
Conflict Period World War I

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Army Veterinary Corps ******
Regiment Number SE/29001
Conflict Period World War I

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Army Service Corps
Regiment Number R4/069569
Conflict Period World War I

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Labour Corps
Regiment Number 213183

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Royal Field Artillery ******
Regiment Number 15048

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Army Service Corps
Regiment Number SS/23022

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Machine Gun Corps, Calvary ******
Regiment Number 100479

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Royal Garrison Artillery, Labour Corps
Regiment Number 144495, 654564

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Royal Field Artillery, Labour Corps
Regiment Number 12749, 314245

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Army Service Corps
Regiment Number T2/9952

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Labour Corps
Regiment Number 372561
Conflict Period World War I

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Army Service Corps, Royal Army Medical Corps
Regiment Number T4/122152, 205859

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Royal Field Artillery
Regiment Number 55685

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Army Veterinary Corps
Regiment Number SE/31781

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex) Regiment, Royal Fusiliers, London Regiment
Regiment Number 267384, 68514, 699048

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment London Regiment
Regiment Number 4388, 281799

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Army Service Corps, Border Regiment
Regiment Number 063177, 33482

Full Name Madden, James
Regiment Royal Field Artillery
Regiment Number L/30062
EDIT-Not this soldier, Residence 78 Carther Street, Walworth London

Full Name Madden, James P
Regiment Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex) Regiment
Regiment Number G/8941
EDIT- Not this soldier, Residence 13 Stamford Road, Fulham -24yrs on discharge

Full Name Madden, James T
Regiment Royal Field Artillery
Regiment Number 118543

20 Henry Madden's listed: Same selection guidelines as above

Full Name Madden, Henry
Regiment Army Service Corps
Regiment Number M2/103359

Full Name Madden, Henry
Regiment Army Veterinary Corps
Regiment Number SE/14984

Full Name Madden, Henry E
Regiment Machine Gun Corps
Regiment Number 82987

Full Name Madden, Henry G
Regiment Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment, Labour Corps
Regiment Number 27978, 58489

Full Name Madden, Henry Thomas
Regiment Royal Field Artillery
Regiment Number 1496, 841035

Full Name Madden, Henry W
Regiment Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment, King's Royal Rifle Corps
Regiment Number S/6536, 51341

Full Name Madden, H W
Alias Henry W
Regiment Army Service Corps
Regiment Number M2/120033

FOUND HIM !!!

UK, WWI, British Army Pension Records, 1914-1920 ***17 Pages***

Henry Madden
Enlisted 3rd June 1915
Posted 495 Coy (Company) Expeditionary Force 16/02/1916-24/08/1918

DeMob address 18 Oliver Mews, Harrow Road, Paddington, London, S72

Gender Male
Regiment Army Service Corps
Regiment Number 103359
Document Type Service and Casualty Form
Document Year 1919
Full Name Madden, Henry

Henry's Medal entitlement

Full Name Madden, Henry
Rank Name Private
Service Number M2/103359
NA Url /details/r/D3889216
NA Years 1914-1920
Regiment Army Service Corps
Archive Reference WO 372/13/75547
Conflict Period World War I
Served For United Kingdom

award
Victory Medal

award
British War Medals

Purely for INFO

1911 Census For England & Wales
3 Dartington Terrace, Paddington, London & Middlesex, England
James Madden Head Married Male 40 1871 Carman London Paddington
Ada Madden Wife Married Female 40 1871 - London Paddington
Henry Madden Son - Male 14 1897 School London Paddington
James Madden Son - Male 12 1899 School London Paddington
George Madden Son - Male 10 1901 School London Paddington
Violet Madden Daughter - Female 7 1904 School London Paddington
Daisy Madden Daughter - Female 5 1906 School London Paddington
Nelbie Madden Daughter - Female 2 1909 - London Paddington

There are 18 James Madden Service records on Fold3.

I don't see one which has any specific information linking them to either James being sought.

Searching the girls names ( dependants of James Sr ) - Nothing found

There is a tree on Ancestry which has a photograph of this James, IN UNIFORM

Entitled James Madden in his Horse Artillery uniform WW1

James Madden
1869–1928
Birth 30AUG1869 • 38, Saville, Street, Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Death 12 AUGUST 1928 • Pancras, London, England

The image shows him wearing Overseas Service Chevrons (4) each indicating one year's service overseas. There is also a cap in the photograph with a cap badge.

Off to check Cap Badge records.......


Middlesex Regiment !!

RHA cap badge looks completely different and is not the badge shown in the image.

wow - im rather speechless with all of the war record info! You are all amazingly clever - I am so grateful for the fact that you each took time to help me - I feel rather emotional.
I am delighted to read my great uncle Henry's war records and subsequent medals awarded. It would be amazing if someone could find his dad's war record (James Madden senior born 1869 in Paddington London).
James senior was an orphan at a early age and so had a very hard life - I don't know much except his parents both died when he was very young - I have the photo of James in his service chevrons as I was given it on ancestry by a distant relative but they knew even less about his war records than me which was pretty much zero so if anyone can work out where he was posted etc from the photo that would be amazing.
I recall an elderly relative telling me many years ago that he was an officer's assistant (not sure of the terminology) but used to look after one specific officer and his horse.
thanks again everyone for any info you can find.-

Incidentally what can i do with the war record of my great uncle Henry? can I now use that info to obtain his record?

His service record forms part of his Pension record

All UK, Absent Voter Lists, 1918-1925, 1939 results for Madden

26 Results
Only One James and One Henry

Name James Madden
Rank Driver
Electoral Date 1918
Electoral Place London Borough of Southwark, Southwark, London, England
Parliamentary Division Southwark
Regiment Royal Field Artilliary
Service Number L30062
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This soldier can be excluded as service number does not appear on Medal Roll Index Card of Madden 103359

Name Henry Madden
Rank Private
Electoral Date 1918
Electoral Place London Borough of Southwark, Southwark, London, England
Parliamentary Division Southwark
Regiment Army Veterinary Corps
Service Number 14984

hi Jink20
sorry but I am not sure what this last post means - when it says "this soldier can be excluded as service number does not appear on medal rolls index card" ... is this a bad thing?
apologies for my ignorance here

Checking Silver War Badge (discharged on medical and certain other grounds) entries on Ancestry.

Name James Madden
Badge number B250205
Regiment Labour Corps
Service Number 372561
Enlisted 1914

" James Madden
254951
Army Service Corps
T3/02265
Enlisted 1914

James Madden
B240911
Army Service Corps
R4/069569
Enlisted Oct 1915