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BTW I have just found the baptism of Louisa Geerts in 1844. Her parents were "Adrien and Louise" Smout and her Christian names were Louisa Geerts.

So, she was born 2 years before her parents married and her mother (Louisa Frances Smout) must have been very young if the census dates for her are correct.

However, the marriage cert says she was of "full age"!! Have just checked her second marriage cert in 1880 where she gave her age as being 58, ie 1822 which would have made her 22 when Louisa was born

Hi Joonie and Silviain

Silviain has found the same records as I did under immigration. I have enhanced the image with photoshop and all I can read in the remarks is what looks like Feb and the rest dont know

This is another record for the same event ............... from the List of Aliens in a register submitted by the Master of the ship Princess Victoria .....

England, Alien Arrivals, 1810-1811, 1826-1869

Name: J A Geerts
Port of Arrival: London, England
Arrival Date: 17 Mar 1842
Port of Departure: Antwerp, Belgium
Ship: Princess Victoria
Country of Origin/Native of: Belgium


There are 3 other names on that page, none of them Geert


Other Geerts arrivals in England are ...........

A Geerts London, England 5 Sep 1852
Cathre Geerts London, England 5 Jul 1852
Geerts Newhaven, England 11 Oct 1858

Cathre Geerts is actually Catherine Geerts, wife of Eugene Verboeckhoven ...... and she was added to HIS certificate.

That fact implies to me that wife or child would have been added to Joseph's Certiifcate if they had accompanied him.

Joonie ................

here's the record, from ancestry .......... it's very faint, so hard to read .........

England, Alien Arrivals, 1810-1811, 1826-1869

Name: Joseph Adrien Geerts
Port of Arrival: London, England
Arrival Date: 17 Mar 1842
Country of Origin/Native of: Belgium

from image:-

Certificate of Arrival No. 701
Profession:- Hair Dresser
Arrived from Antwerp (can't read the next words)

There is a comment in the Remarks section, but I can't make it out


No-one else is listed on that Certificate

a question:

Joseph, a hairdresser, came to England (Port of London) on 17/3/1842.

what kind of record is that, and where was it? I'm just wondering whether it doesn't show son Louis etc. too, and the tiny chance that someone else was with them.

Nuh uh. :-)

Joseph Louis Ferded GEERTS is the eldest son.

Remember? - 1911:

Name: Joseph Ferdinand Louis Geerts
Age in 1911: 74
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation to Head: Father
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Paris, France
Civil Parish: Croydon
Louis Adrien Geerts 48
Emily Annie Geerts 41
Ferdinand Louis Geerts 17
Joseph Ferdinand Louis Geerts 74

and his marriages

Marriages Mar 1862
Geerts Joseph Louis Ferdinand Luton 3b 623
Marriages Mar 1875
Geerts Joseph Louis F Hitchin 3a 367

(Check the names of the son and grandson in the 1911 there - I have it bad with all ancestors in one line being William and James, and in another line being Richard and Thomas, but those 19th century Frenchies, they each had 8 names but they're the same 8 names as everybody else in the family, just in different order!)

I have no shadow of a doubt that the marriage to Rosalie Hervé is your Joseph/Adrien, and that birth is their son Louis.

The thing is just whether the records themselves would tell you any more, but there's no way to know without looking!

What you could do ... go for the 15-day free trial. You have to give credit card info like you're going to buy the 1 month after the 15 days ... then go into your account and strip it of all personal info, especially your credit card info. :-)

then give me your account name and password and I will browse through the Geerts records and see what I might find. I don't even know what the records look like, unfortunately.

The worst I could do is pay for a sub for you, and I promise I wouldn't. :-D

... or heck, I could just do it on my own card, couldn't I ... sometime when I have a free afternoon ...

Hi Joonie

Excellent. Well done.

The first Geerts (Joseph Louis Ferded GEERTS) is definitely the wrong one but the
Jph Adrien GEERTS is looking very good.

Thank goodness you can translate!! I have enough problems with English!

I will join and take advantage of your offer please

Gerry :-D

look what I found - a start

http://www.genealogie.com/recherche-genealogique/etat-civil-GEERTS


Joseph Louis Ferded GEERTS

type d'acte Naissance non filiatif
date : entre 1825 et 1850, Paris
conjoint ---
rôle de l'individu : information disponible
source : Relevés d'Etat-Civil - Paris

but argh:

Acte de naissance non filiatif :
Extrait d’un acte sans les parents avec le nom et prénom du sujet, la date et le lieu de l’évènement, avec parfois des informations complémentaires (dont les parrains et marraines).


That is, it is his birth certificate, but it does not show the names of the parents ... it does show the date and place of birth and might have additional information (like godfather and godmother ... which seems pretty odd if father and mother aren't named)


and we also have


Jph Adrien GEERTS

type d'acte Mariage non filiatif
date : entre 1825 et 1850, Paris
conjoint HERVE R.
rôle de l'individu : information disponible
source : Relevés d'Etat-Civil - Paris


which at least tells us that his first wife was R HERVE, but again "non filiatif" i.e. parents are not named
edit - found her record, she was Rosalie Hervé

and that both these events were in Paris


I don't know what other information would be available about these events

the site is a subscription site, but offers a 15-day free trial

http://www.genealogie.com/essai-gratuit

Like Ancestry, you pay and then you can cancel before 15 days
€20 for one month after the trial period

if you wanted to do that, I could help interpret anything you got

theoretically you could look at all those 92 Geerts records to see whether anything helped :-)

I wonder whether his family might have relocated to France when he was young ...

this site unfortunately starts only at 1891

http://www.geopatronyme.com/cgi-bin/carte/nomcarte.cgi?numero=0040541&periode=1

but that page shows Geerts births in France

1891-1915 : 46 births.
1916-1940 : 70
1941-1965 : 86
1966-1990 : 64

obviously they are mainly near the border with Belgium, and the surname is common enough that they would not necessarily be close family of Joseph/Adrien.

In censuses, Louis does say he was born in Paris.


Joseph/Adrien and his descendants do seem to be the only Geerts in England in the 19th century, so unfortunately there is no one else to connect him with.

Thank you all for your help.

I have actually made a number of amendments on Ancestry this afternoon specifically to help future searchers.

With regard to Joseph's age 1861 gives 1811 and 1851 gives 1813. and I am sure his first marriage must have been before he arrived in England in 1842

Gerry :-)

His marriage certificate to Louisa does say that Joseph Adrien was a Widower ......

..... and Gerry also said in his OP that Joseph was "previously married" :-D

this looks like louisa's death

Deaths Sep 1897 (>99%)
Davies Louisa Frances 73 Hackney

I would say it is quite likely Joseph/Adrien was married previously and Louis, born in France, is a son of the previous marriage

Ancestry's excellent job on the 1851 census, for info

Adrien Ceeots 38
Louisa Ceeots 25
Louisa Ceeots 7
Fanny Ceeots 4
Edward Ceeots 2


Gerry, it is always worth correcting census mistranscriptions at Ancestry, adding postems at freebmd, etc, in case there are family members you are not in contact with who might have info and could contact you that way

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Dorset Street, Saint Marylebone, Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Adam Geerts Head Married Male 38 1813 Hair Dresser Belgium
Transcription
Louisa Geerts Wife Married Female 25 1826 - Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
Transcription
Louisa Geerts Daughter - Female 7 1844 - Berkshire, England
Transcription
Fanny Geerts Daughter - Female 4 1847 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Edward Geerts Son - Male 2 1849 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England

louisa's age must be wrong in 1861 census
so the son was born before they married

it does look that way

this looks like son Louis's full name in the 1911 census

Louis Adrien Geerts 48
Emily Annie Geerts 41
Ferdinand Louis Geerts 17
>> Joseph Ferdinand Louis Geerts 74

Name: Joseph Ferdinand Louis Geerts
Age in 1911: 74
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation to Head: Father
Birth Place: Paris, France
Civil Parish: Croydon
Street address: 65 Albert Road, Croydon, Surrey
Marital Status: Widowed

could he have been married before seeing the age of louis born in france on 1861 census

I would just note that his father was not likely 'John' ... more likely 'Jean' for instance

famlysearch shows a few Jean/Jean-Baptiste Geerts and Johan/Johannes (Baptista) Geerts.


when looking for someone, their date and place of birth is rather important

1861 census says

Name: J A Geerts
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: 1811
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa Geerts
Where born: Antwerp, Belgium

I can't see them in 1851 to crosscheck


oops, Malyon was posting the 1861 as I was

I would just note that '50' might be a bit of a round number, and 'Antwerp' might be geographically rounded from a place that no English enumerator had ever heard of or could spell

County London, Middlesex
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place Chelsea, London, Middlesex, England
Ecclesiastical Parish Trinity
Registration District Ch
ACE
J A Geerts Head M 50 Antwern Belgium
Louisa Geerts Wife F 33 ,
Edward Geerts Son M 14 London,
Arthur Geerts Son M 10 London,
Louisa Geerts Daughter F 17 London,
Antoinet Geerts Daughter F 3 London,
Rosea Geerts Daughter F 2 London,
Magdalena Geerts Daughter F 3M London,
Louis J Geerts Son M 23 France
Ripley Smout Visitor F 73 , Buckinghamshire
Emma Poye

In case you don't have his certificate ..... and to help us ...... here it is

London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Adrien Joseph Geerts
Spouse: Louisa Frances Smout
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 14 Sep 1846
Parish: Parish Chapel, St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Father Name: John Geerts
Spouse Father: Edmund Smout
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Adrien
Of Full Age
Widower,
Occupation:- Hair Dresser
Address:- Frederick St
Father occupation:- Dead

Witnesses:- Alfred Cooper and Elizabeth (can't read surname)