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Good afternoon All
I have the birth and death references for Duncan Rienzi Kalthoeber via Ancestry (curiously he's not on FreeBMD itself). He was born in 1889 and died a year later in 1890 in Manchester.
Before I purchase the birth certificate is there any other way to determine his parents? Had he died a year later I may have found him in the 1891 census.
I'm quite happy to buy the certificate but I'm just curious and have had much previous information about finding my ancestors from the people on this board, for which I'm extremely grateful.
Thanks in advance.
Ron

Sorry, he is shown on FreeBMD as well.

This man is born with the same name as Duncan



Name:Charles E H Kalthoeber

Age:16

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1885

Relation to Head:Son

Gender:Male

Father:John Hann Kalthoeber

Mother:Rose Ann Kalthoeber

Birth Place:Manchester, Lancashire, England


Registration district:Manchester

Sub-registration district:St George

ED, institution, or vessel:06

Piece:3750
Folio:128
Page Number:10

Household schedule number:67

John Hann Kalthoeber 54
Rose Ann Kalthoeber 57
Ernest M Kalthoeber 26
Florence A Kalthoeber 23
Geraldine Kalthoeber 21
Charles E H Kalthoeber 16

Name:John Hann Kalthoeber

Age in 1911:64

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1847

Relation to Head:Head

Gender:Male

Birth Place:London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish:Manchester

Street address:266 Rochale Road Manchester

Marital Status:Married

Occupation:Cashier & French Correspondent

Registration district:Manchester

Registration District Number:

John Hann Kalthoeber 64
Rose Ann Kalthoeber 67
Florence Adeline Kalthoeber 33
Rose Moreton Kalthoeber 5

3 children had died by 1911

Sorry Gins, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean the surname Kalthoeber? If so, yes there are many Kalthoebers in my tree.

Now I do. Sorry to be thick. Maybe one of the children who died was Duncan, is what you mean.

You have the spelling wrong


Duncan Rienzi Kalthoeser
Birth: Jan 1889 - Manchester, Lancashire

Charles Ernest H Kalthoeser
Birth: Apr 1884 - Manchester, Lancashire

Most likely the 3 children that died


Deaths Dec 1877

KALT[HR]OEBER Gertrude 1 Manchester 8d 230
Kalthorber Gertrude 1 Manchester 8d 230

Deaths Sep 1880
KALTHOEBER Alice Louisa C 0 Manchester 8d 169

Deaths Mar 1890
Kalthoeber Duncan Rienzi 1 Manchester 8d 261

Parents marriage

Marriages Dec 1871


Chappell Rose Ann Manchester 8d 823
Kalthoeber John Hann Manchester 8d 823

There are many variants of the surname but Kalthoeber and Kalthober are the two main ones.
You have not only solved my question with Duncan, but also with Alice Louise Correy Kalthoeber, another of my ancestors who died in infancy (aged 8 months). I've just looked through all of my Kalthoebers who lived in Manchester in the period around Duncan's and Alice's death and they were all children of John Hann Kalthoeber and Rose Ann Kalthoeber (nee Chappell), A third Kalthoeber - Ernest Moreton - also died before 1911, so that pretty well ties up the three deaths.
That's wonderful Gins. Thanks so much.
Best regards
Ron

Sorry Gins, our posts crossed. I haven't been able to find a death for Gertrude, but I'm sure the third death was Ernest, as my previous post

I'm doing really well, aren't I? You found Gertrude's death, so not sure why only three deaths were shown in the 1911. John Hann K had 7 children, plus Alice and Duncan.

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1877

KALTHOEBER Gertrude 1 Saint George Archives+, Manchester Central Library STG/107/334


Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1880

KALTHOEBER Alice Louisa Corry 0 Ancoats Archives+, Manchester Central Library ANC


Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1890

KALTHOEBER Duncan Rienzi 1 Saint George Archives+, Manchester Central Library STG/142

(above from below link)

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

('Soundex' ticked for Surname Variants)

Chris :)


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1872

KALTHOEBER Lillian Letitia Saint George Archives+, Manchester Central Library (Mother Maiden Name) CHAPPELL

Thank you Chris

Ronald

They may not have thought about Ernest when completing the 1911 census and so only entered 3 children as dying

I see Ernest sailed to Canada in 1903. Out of sight and out of mind by the looks of it. They may not have known about his death if he died overseas

Gins, I wasn't aware of that. It's quite interesting because Ernest's family emigrated to South Africa around that time. His daughter Rose M Kalthoeber was born there in 1905, just as Ernest died. Through my Genealogy research I have found a long lost cousin, Ernest's great grand daughter, who subsequently moved from South Africa to Calgary in Canada!! Does the record say where in Canada he landed? I must email her to let her know what you've uncovered for me. Thanks again

It says he's a traveller. I don't know where the transcriber got his age from, there isn't one listed on the document

I'm not so sure that this is him?



Name:E C H Kalthoeber

Birth Date:abt 1872

Age:31

Port of Departure:St John, New Brunswick, Canada

Arrival Date:29 Dec 1903

Port of Arrival:Liverpool, England

Ship Name:Tunisian

Shipping line:Allan Line
Official Number:111248

E M

Last name Kalthoeber

Service number(s)446

RankPrivate

RegimentArmy Service Corps

NotesSpecial Service Clerk.
The Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Clasps: Cape Colony, South Africa 1902

RollsRoll: 216, Page: 143

UnitsUnit: Army Service Corps, Rank: Private, Number: 446

Gins,
I have three other Ernests but they were all born after 1903. I do have Charles Ernest Hampden K, another of John Hann K's offspring in that period. It's probably him, although he wasn't born until 1884. I presume he was travelling alone, otherwise you would have mentioned it? His wife was Rose K (nee Walsh) and they married in 1905.

Gins
I'm really grateful for the time you're taking on my query. Thanks for the Army record too.
I never fail to marvel at people's generosity in helping others on this site.