Find Ancestors

to MGNV. I want to thank you for giving me so many family search computor sites, My generation only learned computors when we were in our 60s so it takes a while ( a long long time) to learn new things.
I have passed all these new www. sites that you so kindly sent me to my sisters and we are all frantically searching for marriages in the morris family that we have not found before. If ( and its a big if) we ever find our lost family i will let you know. Thanks for being so supportive and non judgemental of a complete learner. :-)

Many Many thanks to all you fabulous research, i have a lot of it already as it is the 1914 year that they were last around. when samuel morris married Ida (ada) moss in ashton underlyne.

I had already got my grannys family treet (obviously) and her elder sibling John Edwin Morris who married and had three daughters, we have followed this tree and spent hours, even going so far as attempting to telephone people from the election and 192, but they al turned out to be no relation to my family. Honestly if you thought i was misleading any of you i was not. I just did not want you following a dead end. My sister even went to the office of a man in warrington who's wife was the right name and d.o.b. correct - again a dead end. They must have left the country in 1914/15. It was only the 1st WW that made me doubt that anyone would go so far with a wae on. onve again many thanks. :-(

My last post used mostly
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_STATES
plus free searches at Ancestry (with limited details w/o a sub)

Now, I'm going to supplement the GRO index with local indexes, esp Ches & Lancs.
See http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd


Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1881 to 1885
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MORRIS Joseph ANDREW Mary Jane Ashton under Lyne, St Peter Tameside CE5/3/388
see also https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMTH-KZ1 [so MJ's dad is Sampson]

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1881 MORRIS John Edwin Ashton Town Tameside ANDREW AST/100/96
1883 MORRIS Frank Ashton Town Tameside ANDREW AST/104/78
1885 MORRIS Annetta Dukinfield Tameside ANDREW DUK/102/77
1887 MORRIS Samuel Ashton Town Tameside ANDREW AST/116/70
1894 MORRIS Andrew Ashton Town Tameside ANDREW AST/132/71



Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1905
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MORRIS John Edwin EVANS Annie Ashton under Lyne Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended Tameside RM/105/196


These are the Morris-Evans births in Leigh RD 1905-1931
Births Sep 1907 (>99%)
MORRIS Dorothy Leigh 8c 285

Births Jun 1911 (>99%)
Morris Evelyn M Leigh 8c 297

Births Sep 1916 (>99%)
Morris Annetta Evans Leigh 8c 517


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1907 MORRIS Dorothy Leigh Wigan & Leigh EVANS L/24/213
1911 MORRIS Evelyn Mary Atherton Wigan & Leigh EVANS ATH/107/384
1916 MORRIS Annetta Atherton Wigan & Leigh EVANS ATH/117/198


Maybe
Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1921
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MORRIS Frank EMMETT Clarice Ashton under Lyne, Christ Church Tameside CE1/10/129


Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1914
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MORRIS Samuel MOSS Ida Ashton-under-Lyne, Richmond Hill Church (Richmond Street) Tameside APD35/1/16

1841 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQGL-4XJ
Mary Andrew F 30
Betty Andrew F 15
John Andrew M 13
Mary Andrew F 9
Sarah Andrew F 8
Samson Andrew M 6
James Armstrong M 40 Ireland
Mary Armstrong F 40 Ireland
Peter Armstrong M 15 Lancashire
James Armstrong M 13 Lancashire
John Armstrong M 5 Lancashire

bp 3/3/1822 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3V6-Q97 [Chas]
bp 18/4/1824 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3V6-WD7
bp 22/3/1829 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3V6-6MJ
bp 4/8/1833 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3V6-KBR
bp 14/6/1835 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3V6-PHY

Maybe https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TW-BY4

Maybe
1835 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TC-RT1
or
1836 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TC-TMS
One would need a grave to see who he's buried with, or a child's m.cert for occup to distinguish these.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1434275


http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=8860
I got a hit on Ancestry in 1851 for:
Name Parent or spouse names Birth Year Birthplace Relation Residence
Samson Andrew Mary abt 1836 location relation city, Lancashire

As you can tell from my hit, I don't have an Ancestry sub, but piece # ho107/2233 (which covers part of Ashton Town) is one of the "decayed" (water-damaged) pieces, so the image & transcription are of unknown quality.



Nominal US census day was 1st June 1860/1870. I can't find them on either census, nor on an incoming passenger record for either leg of their round trip, nor on the English 1861/1871 census - the Irish 1871 hasn't survived.

Here's the MA state census:
1865 Lawrence Ward 4
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQH5-RCT [with image link]
Sampson Andrews M 25y England Oper[ator]
Dorothy Andrews F 32y England
Mary J Andrews F 4y Massachusetts
Frances Andrews F 2y Massachusetts
Sarah E Andrews F 2m Massachusetts
[Lawrence is in Essex Co, abt 10km NE of Lowell. Essex Co is the NE corner of MA]

[4 below with image link]
1/12/1862 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXC1-XNT
18/3/1865 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXZ4-BRN
12/8/1869 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXZK-NY7
21/6/1872 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXZB-VBK
[I'm having bother trying to see those images]


1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXJ-CHXN
Thompson Andrew Head Fam M 46 Godley, Cheshire, England Slasher In Cotton Mill Unemployed
Dorothy Andrew Wife F 50 Ireland
Mary J Andrew Daughter F 20 Larance ?, America
Francis Andrew Son M 18 Larance ?, America
Sarah A Andrew Daughter F 11 Larance ?, America
Elizabeth Andrew Daughter F 8 Queens County, Ireland

Clearly Thompson is Sampson - I don't know if he changed his name, but more likely, it's a mistranscription, either by the enumerator or the transcriber.

So Eliz is b in Co Laois, which seems to contradict the MA record, unless Eliz 1 died, and Eliz 2 was b in Laois.


A search on FS:
Ireland Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958
No records found for Name: andrew, Event: Birth, Place: Laois, Event Range: 1868-1875
No records found for Name: andrew, Event: Death, Place: Laois, Event Range: 1868-1875

Actually, I didn't search in Laois, but in each of 5 RDs
I did get some hits, but none were relevant

LAOIS (1851) contained part (*-ed) or all of the following RDs
Abbeyleix
Athy*
Carlow*
Donaghmore
Mountmellick*
Roscrea**

Sources
http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/GRO-History.pdf
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/plumaps/index.cfm?UserID=


Sampson went back to the US:
1888 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KG23-7LX
[Occupation Slasher]


1891 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QBVS-WN2

1901 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9L4-369

1911
JEM https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWYL-JSV [in rg14/23241]
MJM https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWYL-FKS [in rg14/23241]
[We can look up the piece # rg14/23241 at:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
and see it covers part of Atherton]

1911 says it's Lawrence MA, rather than Lawrence KS or any of the other dozen Lawrences. (The 1881 transcription didn't make this clear)

um ............ Maria unless you took the info I posted here and put it in your tree sometime in the last couple of hours, you already knew what I have 'found'

in your tree you have the child born in 1939

someone else has her as born in 1938, which is most likely the correct date (born late 1938, registered early 1939)

whether you know that other member, we don't know

you and three other people also have Annetta Morris 1916 in your trees, the others with dates varying from 1915 to 1920

you even have Thomas Needham 1914 the husband of Annetta Morris (as do others)

and Dorothy Morris 1907 daughter of John Edwin Morris


I don't think you found all that extra information between when I first posted and now


so it seems you had all this information when you posted your question


if you knew all this and still said

'After this the whole family disappeared'

... well you knew that wasn't ... correct ... because at the least you knew perfectly well who John Edwin Morris's children and at least one of his grandchildren were

and it is very annoying to have spent time finding things you said you didn't know but you did

if you didn't know it and have taken the info I posted here and put it in your tree and not said so much as thank you ...

I rather suspect it is the former and I have no idea why you are saying that you don't know things you do know ...?

Births Dec 1881
MORRIS John Edwin Ashton under Lyne 8d 450

Births Jun 1883
MORRIS Frank Ashton 8d 468

Births Mar 1885 (just for info)
Morris Annetta Ashton 8d 583

Births Dec 1887
Morris Samuel Ashton 8d 462

Births Jun 1894
Morris Andrew Ashton 8d 454

the lack of middle names does not help!
_______________________________________

Marriages Sep 1905
EVANS Annie Ashton 8d 1033
MORRIS John Edwin Ashton 8d 1033

1911 in Atherton Lancs, Leigh reg dist

John Edwin Morris 29
Annie Morris 29
Dorothy Morris 3


probably can be confident this is another child

Births Sep 1916
Morris Annetta (Evans) Leigh 8c 517

but to 1920, that is the only Morris-Evans birth in Leigh reg dist


seems like the most likely marriage for her:

Marriages Dec 1936
Morris Annetta Needham Oldham 8d 1709
Needham Thomas Morris Oldham 8d 1709


Name: Annetta Needham
Birth Date: 15 Jul 1916
Date of Registration: Oct 1998
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Register Number: OA38B
District and Subdistrict: 0071A
Entry Number: 36


definitely one child, born in Ashton reg dist: Annetta, 1939

she married in Ashton reg dist in 1960

there is a 2014-2015 electoral roll listing for what is very possibly Annetta and her husband

search for Annetta Jones here

http://www.freeelectoralroll.co.uk

and it is the post code beginning OL1

yes, 'who have tried to assist in the past' was going to be my signal to go googling

sigh ...

maybe this will be simpler here though now that we know exactly who is involved

(as much of the previous thread was speculation with no response from Maria)

and that the vague question about sea travel during WWI was actually about specific people and that should have been the question ...

_______________________________

1891 census in Ashton Under Lyne

Joseph Morris 28
Mary J Morris 30
Annetta Morris 6
Frank Morris 8
John E Morris 9
Samuel Morris 3
Samuel Morris 22
_______________________________

and then in 1901:

Joseph Morris 38
Mary Jane Morris 40
John Ed Morris 19
Frank Morris 18
Annetta Morris 16
Samuel Morris 13
Andrew Morris 7

so that is all the names mentioned, accounted for: John, Frank, Samuel, Andrew
_______________________________

Marriages Dec 1914
Morris Samuel Moss Ashton 8d 929
Moss Ida Morris Ashton 8d 929
_______________________________

there were no births to a Morris-Moss couple in that location, and too many other Morris-Moss couples to try to sort out the births

A lot more info on this previous thread:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1022884

Hello Maria, when and where was Samuel Morris born? Might give us a chance to see if we can find out what happened to him.

Are you saying you can't find his parents or siblings at all after 1914? Did Samuel have any children?

i thought i had written amd yjanked everyone and put more info on the site but i cannt find it, so just in case this is who i am looking for. In 1914 samuel morris the son of mary jane morris (nee Andrew) and joseph morris, married an ide moss. the rest o f the family. mother father and brothers frank samuel and andrew morris all signed the marriage certificate. The only one of the family not there was my granny annetta bateson (nee Morris) she was giving birth to my mother marie. dec 1914. After this the whole family disappeared. ( except annetta. )
As Mary Jane Andrew was born in 1861 in Massachusetts usa. who presumed they must have all gone to the usa. but despite years and tears of searching we have found none of them.
Thank you all so much who have tried to assist in the past. We have been to chester and Preston and ashton under lyne. cheshire where the children were all born but found nothing.. It Is a mystery. tHANKS AGAIN

I'll remind Maria how to find her replies... :-)

You might find this interesting

http://tiny.cc/rm837x
Links to a FMP blog
'Fascinating maps reveal how long it takes to travel in 2016 v 1914'

You're right JoonieCloonie, but mgnv can now see how the error occurred.

Edit to comment on your edit - so mgnv and I are both 'right' ;-)

I think your pointy things may have messed up the quote Det :-)

'Congress voted to declare war on Germany on April 6, 1917. On December 7, 1917, the US declared war on the Austro-Hungarian Empire.'

(edit to clarify: a vote by Congress to declare war is is not an actual declaration of war; December 7 is the date recognized as the date on which war was declared:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Formal)

>>>Congress>>the US<<< declared war on the Austro-Hungarian Empire.[5][6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_entry_into_World_War_I

Point taken

but mgnv, the question was about crossing to the USA, and the answer seems to be that travel on US lines did continue ... despite the Lusitania in 1915

Maria hasn't said whether she is looking for particular people crossing during that time, so we don't know why she can't find them

could be because they didn't cross :-)

DetEcTive - US declared war on Germany 6/4/1917 (and UK on 4/8/1914).
I'm not so sure abt the relative safety of neutral shipping - remember the Lusitania.


Using Ancestry's Canadian passenger lists, here's passenger counts from Liverpool to Quebec City/Halifax:
Year Quebec Halifax
1913 91582 41466
1914 46747 21242
1915 11437 4625
1916 14756 4721
1917 12778 25347
1918 641 34513
1919 50918 141763
1920 76224 9807

As you can see, WW1 had a considerable impact on transatlantic travel, and on destination, but it contined throughout the war, albeit at reduced volume.

Normally, in peacetime, Quebec/Montreal was preferred to Halifax, although Quebec is only ice-free from late April thru early November,
Halifax is ice-free year round, but it takes a full day's train journey to get to Montreal, and then one would change trains to continue westward.
Most folk spent the day on the boat, and arrived at Quebec abt the same time as the train travellers.
Shortage of war-time shipping made Halifax a more attractive destination - this was especially true for troops returning in 1919.

The USA didn't declare war on Germany until Dec 1917. US registered passenger vessels would have been able to sail in relative safely.

There are passenger crossings during WW1. Here's an example

Name: Reginald Abbott Smith
Birth: abt 1895
Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival: 11 Apr 1915 - Liverpool, England