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David
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29 Apr 2015 09:22 |
Hello I have a relative Thomas Thompson b.1853 who was married to Sarah Margaret Dickinson on 17 April 1881, which was a couple of weeks after the 1881 census. On the church certificate he puts his father as John Thompson is a ships carpenter but I don't know if he was living at the time of the marriage.
Thomas Thompson on the censuses 1881 to 1901 his birth is Maryport, Cumbria but in 1911 he writes Liverpool. I most inclined to believe the Liverpool as he wrote it. However I can’t find any record of his birth or find him on the 1861 and 1871 census.
I thought I had found his family on the 1851 census [see below] but Thomas doesn't appear in 1861 or 1871. John Thompson Head Married Male 35 1816 Ship Carpenter Journeyman Maryport, Cumberland, England Fanny Thompson Wife Married Female 36 1815 - Maryport, Cumberland, England To be sure this wasn't his family I got Fanny Thompson’s will and Thomas wasn't mentioned. Can you suggest how I might find Thomas? In later life he became a publican and I have found licence information with his name as landlord.
Thanking you in advance Regards David
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Gee
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29 Apr 2015 09:30 |
For ref
Name:Thomas Thompson
Age:28
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1853
Relationship to Head:Lodger
Gender:Male
Where born:Maryport, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish:Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island:Lancashire
Street address:31 West St
Occupation:Carder Cotton
Registration district:Ashton Under Lyne
Sub registration district:Knott Lanes
ED, institution, or vessel:3
Piece:4034 Folio:83 Page Number:16
Household Members:
Edward Code 39 Martha Code 39 Julia Code 70 Anthony Whitestead 24 Thomas Thompson
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Jacqueline
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29 Apr 2015 09:36 |
Don't assume that not mentioning Thomas in the Will is necessarily significant.
My great grandfather's Will does not mention my grandfather
Who witnessed the marriage?
Where did it take place?
What was Thomas's occupation?
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Gee
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29 Apr 2015 09:42 |
Name:Thomas Thompson Cotton Carder
Birth Year:abt 1853
Age:28
Marriage Date:17 Apr 1881
Parish:Leesfield, St Thomas
Parish as it Appears:Leesfield
Father's name:John Thompson
Spouse's Name:Sarah Margaret Dickinson
Spouse's Father's Name:George Dransfield
Wit: Henrietta Dransfield & William Annfield?
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Jacqueline
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29 Apr 2015 09:44 |
Have you asked before about this man?
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greyghost
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29 Apr 2015 10:23 |
Yes, I'm just about to try and find the thread!
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Jacqueline
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29 Apr 2015 10:24 |
Thanks..........I knew FMP wouldn't give me a bum steer.
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greyghost
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29 Apr 2015 10:25 |
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1348829
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Dea
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29 Apr 2015 11:13 |
So we know from the other thread that the 1911 census which gives a birthplace of Liverpool could well NOT be the correct Thomas Thompson !!!
So his birthplace remains Maryport ?? or Oldham or 'maybe' Liverpool according to whichever census you are looking at................
greyghost Report 22 Jan 2015 18:29
?? Is this the 1911 census you are looking at for Thomas b Liverpool
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 13 Sussex Street Oldham Lancaster, Oldham, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation Thomas Thompson Head Married Male 59 1852 Liverpool Lancs Inn Keeper Sarah Marget Thompson Wife Married Female 57 1854 Lancs Ashton under Lyne -
Married 29 years no children
------------------------------------------------- or this in 1901 where Thomas is b Maryport and Sarah in Lees (not Leeds) which would tie with her address on marriage
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 56, Savoy Street, Oldham, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Thomas Thompson Head Married Male 48 1853 Living On Own Means Maryport, Cumberland, Sarah M Thompson Wife Married Female 48 1853 - Leeds, Lancashire, George H Thompson Son Single Male 19 1882 Cotton Mill Book Keeper Lees, Lancashire, Elizabeth H Thompson Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Cotton Reeler Lees, Lancashire, Harold Thompson Son - Male 15 1886 Tailors Shop Assistant Lees, Lancashire,
--------------------------------- These are not the same family unless by 1911, they have disowned their children. -----------------------------------
That was a waste of effort then !
Thanks greyghost.
David, do please keep to only one thread for the same person or family - that way we won't get frustrated by wasting time looking up info which has already been found and posted
Dea x
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Jacqueline
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29 Apr 2015 11:51 |
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 77 Retford Street Oldham, Oldham, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation George Herbert Thompson Head Married Male 29 1882 Lancs Lees Yarn Tester Transcription Sarah Annie Thompson Wife Married Female 35 1876 Lancs Oldham Forewoman Yarn Winding Transcription Albert Edward Shaw Boarder Single Male 24 1887 Lancs Castleton Assistant Secretary
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Dea
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29 Apr 2015 14:01 |
Marriage 1903: CARTRIDGE Edwin THOMPSON Elizabeth H St Peter, Oldham Oldham CEB/4/140 CARTRIDGE Frederick THOMPSON Elizabeth H St Peter, Oldham Oldham CEB/4/140 THOMPSON Elizabeth H CARTRIDGE Edwin St Peter, Oldham Oldham CEB/4/140 THOMPSON Elizabeth H CARTRIDGE Frederick St Peter, Oldham Oldham CEB/4/140
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 15 Nutter St Oldham, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation Frederick Cartridge Head Married Male 29 1882 Lancs Oldham Moulder Brass
Elizabeth Hannah Cartridge Wife Married Female 27 1884 Lancs Lees -
Thomas Cartridge Son - Male 7 1904 Lancs Oldham -
Elsie Cartridge Daughter - Female 5 1906 Lancs Oldham -
Fred Cartridge Son - Male 1 1910 Lancs Oldham -
Dea x
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Dea
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29 Apr 2015 14:04 |
For ref here as it is very difficult working from 2 threads at the same time:
George Thompson in the 1891 England Census Record Image View
Name: George Thompson Age: 9 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882 Relation: Son (Child) Father's name: Thomas Thompson Mother's name: Sarah Thompson Gender: Male Where born: Lees, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Ashton under Lyne Ecclesiastical parish: Bardsley Town: Alt Edge County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:
Registration district: Ashton Under Lyne Sub registration district: Knott Lanes ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3274 Folio: 12 Page Number: 17 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Thompson 39 Licenced victualler b.Oldham ?? Sarah Thompson 37 b. Lees George Thompson 9 Harold Thompson 5
Dea x
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David
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29 Apr 2015 16:36 |
Hi All Sorry for not using existing thread, I can now see the value of only amending the original. Thanks for all those submitting info.
Witness on church certificate: William Arnfield was brother in law to Sarah Margaret's mother. The other witness Henrietta Dransfield was Sarah Margaret's sister b. 1857.
Thomas Thompson, landlord at the Rising Sun, Knowles Lane, Altedge, Ashton under Lyne from 1890-95. Thomas Thompson, landlord 1903-09 Henry Hunt Public House, 12, Brunswick Street, Oldham. Thomas Thompson became landlord of “King William IV”, Turton on 3 March 1913 until his death 28 February 1916 when the licence was transferred to his wife Sarah Margaret effective from 1 May 1916.
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Dea
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29 Apr 2015 18:35 |
No probs David, at least you will know for the future......
Just a thought - the 1911 census who you think may be him appears to have his signature on it (presuming he did the form and not his wife on his behalf? )
Anyway - do any of the documents you have found relating to his pubs have a signature on which you could compare?
I think you also have his marriage cert?
It might be worth seeing if you can match any of them to the 1911 census?
Dea x
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David
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29 Apr 2015 22:00 |
His signature is on the church record and is similar bearing in mind they were 30 years apart: Thomas Thompson & Sarah Margaret Dickinson cert 17April1881 Leesfield PC.
The pub records are from trade directories.
I'm in contact with a lady whose husband is related to Thomas' daughter, Elizabeth Hannah Thompson and she emailed me this:
My mother-in-law lived with her parents & Thompson grandparents in Turton (Bolton Lancs.) where Thomas was a publican for a couple of years before Thomas died. When Thomas died his wife Sarah became the licencee & subsequently my mother-in-law's father--Edwin Cartridge--took over.
Thomas Thompson's headstone reads: Thomas Thompson 62 d.28Feb1916 & Sarah Margaret 67 d.9Feb1922 also Elizabeth Hannah (Thompson) Cartridge d.7Dec1936 & Edwin Cartridge 64.
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David
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30 Apr 2015 20:18 |
The probate extracts show the family relationships and pub licensee info. Thomas Thompson of the King William Inn Bromley Cross Bolton Lancashire licensed victualler died 28 Feb. 1916.
Probate Manchester 7th April to Sarah MargaretThompson widow Effects:- £390.1.2d
Sarah Margaret of the King William Inn Chapeltown Road Turton near Bolton Lancashire widow died 9th February 1922 Probate London 24th March to George Herbert Thompson manager and Harold Thompson iron moulder Effects:- £474.10s.0
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malyon
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30 Apr 2015 20:48 |
Thomas Thompson England Births and Christenings Name: Thomas Thompson Gender: Male Christening Date: 13 Mar 1853 Christening Place: SAINT PETER,LIVERPOOL,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND Father's Name: Edward Thompson Mother's Name: Rosanna Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P02027-6 , Syste
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David
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30 Apr 2015 22:20 |
That is interesting as the father is a shipwright on the 1871 census and on his church marriage certificate Thomas states his father was a ship's carpenter, which I think are roughly the same thing.
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David
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1 May 2015 09:26 |
Question Is the church marriage record, as found on Ancestry, the same as the marriage certificate that can be requested from Gov BDM records? Are Gov BDM records copied from the church records?
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Jacqueline
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1 May 2015 09:30 |
shipwright Also found in: Encyclopedia, Wikipedia. ship·wright (ship'rit') n. One that builds or repairs ships.
NOT the same as a carpenter
Both trades would be mortified to think they were being confused
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