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Hello
Please can you help.My son-in-law says his grandparents were Ernest Kitchener Hall Ireland and Lilian.I have found a record for Ernest Ireland and Lilian A Irwin married in Hull in 1941.Lilian was born in Hull in 1918 but I can't find a record of an Ernest Kitchener Hall Ireland born anywhere in the country let alone Hull but there are plenty of plain Ernest Ireland.
You have worked miracles in the past so I thought I would ask again for your help.
Wendy

What does his parents marriage cert. give as name of father?
and
What was his father's name?

Can your SIL check his parents' marriage cert to what father's names are on it? Or is that where he got the name from?

Looks like his death!

Name: Ernest Kitchener H Ireland
Birth Date: 1 Aug 1915
Death Registration Month/Year: Feb 1994
Age at death (estimated): 78
Registration district: Hull
Inferred County: Yorkshire
Register number: C47A
District and Subdistrict: 5502C
Entry number: 96
(shows date of birth) maybe he wasn't born in England or Wales?

His marriage?
Name: Ernest K H Ireland
Spouse Surname: Hawkins
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1946
Registration district: Hull
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire - East Riding
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 659
Find Spouse: Amy E Hawkins

but not Lilian?

another marriage that fits with name?
Name: Ernest K H Ireland
Spouse Surname: Beere
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1975
Registration district: Hull
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire - East Riding
Volume Number: 7
Page Number: 0557
Rita A Beere
?

Could you please give your son in law's father's name!

Hi
Sadly my son-in-law knows very little about his grandfather Ernest but says he left Lilian after the birth of their first child so he could well have married again.
This info looks very promising but can you suggest how I go back another generation?
Many Thanks
Wendy

Ps These are his maternal grandparents.His mother's name was Francis M Ireland née ?
Wendy

The death cert. should give the name of the person who registered the death which may be his wife or a son or daughter.
If it is his wife, then you could buy the marriage cert. of the relevant marriage, which should give you his father's name and occupation if he knew it.

This looks to be his mother's birth which gives mother's maiden name as Irwin!

Name: Frances M Ireland
Mother's Maiden Surname: Irwin
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1943
Registration district: Hull
Registration county: Yorkshire
Volume Number: 9d
Page Number: 286

...........if he left his wife just after this birth, then the first marriage I found could fit with date.

There are two births, Ireland - Hawkins, both same county but not Hull.
One in Holderness in 1949 and the other in Howden in 1951.
If these are related then maybe you could check in Search Trees to see if they are on this site. Will pm details.
Could be they have more info?

Hi
Thanks Catherine,I will do as you suggest,you have given me info to work with.
Wendy

Amy's death:-

Name: Amy E Ireland
Death Registration Month/Year: 1962
Age at death (estimated): 36
Registration district: Hull
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume: 2a
Page: 127
(makes date of birth 1926)

...................so the other marriage could well be him also.

Hi ,I will do as you say and order certificates.There can't be too many Ernest Kitchener Hall Ireland.
I forgot to say that Holderness and Howden are both neighbours of Hull so it looks as though you are right in saying he might have had other children with his second wife,he was still a young man.
Wendy
Wendy

Wendy, I've just had a look on Scotlands people for a birth and there is an Ernest K. Ireland born in 1915, so maybe he was born in Scotland?

I have a few credits left so here it is:-
1 1915 IRELAND ERNEST KITCHENE M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0139 No Image ORDER

.............so second name is Kitchener!!!!
I think this could very well be him.

.............from familysearch.org:-

Ernest Kitchener Ireland - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 AUG 1915 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Father: John Binnie Ireland
Mother: Annie McGreig Downie

this is a submitted entry, but birth date fits!

JOHN BINNIE IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Death: 05 OCT 1934
Gender: Male Marriage: 02 OCT 1896 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Spouse: ANNIE MCGREIG DOWNIE

also a submitted entry, but, scotlands people does confirm a marriage for this couple in 1896.

All the following have same parents:-
Father: John Binnie Ireland
Mother: Annie McGreig Downie

interesting to note that the marriage was 2nd Oct.1896 and birth of first child is 6 Oct. same year.

Andrew Ireland - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 06 OCT 1896 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 11 APR 1982

ANNIE DOWNIE IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 08 AUG 1898 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 04 SEP 1930

AGNES BRASH IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 MAR 1900 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 25 JUN 1902

ROBERT MITCHELL IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 02 OCT 1901 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 20 MAY 1902

Mary Wood Ireland - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 DEC 1902 Carriden, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 01 JAN 2001

ABIGAIL FUNNELL IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 01 SEP 1904 Carriden, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: NOV 1904

MARGARET MURPHEY IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 10 JAN 1906 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 17 APR 1912

JOHN BINNIE IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 16 MAY 1908 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 01 JUN 1934

MARTHA JANE LINDSAY IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 04 SEP 1910 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 02 JAN 1912

DOLINA MC KENZIE IRELAND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 03 NOV 1912 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 07 APR 1917

Ernest Kitchener Ireland - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 AUG 1915 Linlithgow, West Lothian, Scotland
Death: 1993

Whoever submitted these entries has all the full dates of deaths except that of Ernest which is just noted as 1993. The death I found for Ernest Kitchener Hall Ireland was Feb.1994 which is the registration date not the actual date of death, so not far out, so this does look to be the same person.

His marriage cert. will confirm, or not, if this is the correct family. I would be interested to know the outcome so could you post the info from the cert. onto your thread when you have it please.
Catherine

This family in 1901:-

Name: John Ireland
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Annie
Gender: Male
Where born: Coldridge, Edinburghshire
Registration Number: 668
Registration district: Linlithgow
Civil parish: Linlithgow
County: West Lothian
Address: 8 High East Port
Occupation: Shale Miner
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 14
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1901_357
Household Members:
Name Age
John Ireland 27
Annie Ireland 24 born: Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire
Andrew Ireland 4 1897 born: Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire
Annie Ireland 2 1899 born: Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire
Agnes Ireland 1 1900 born: Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire
John Ireland 1 mo 1901 born: Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire

unfortunately 1911 for Scotland is not yet available.

The following is from Scotland people which helps confirm births although it doesn't give mother's maiden name:-

No Year Surname Forename Sex District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1 1911 IRELAND AGNES BOYLE BRA F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0072 No Image ORDER
2 1900 IRELAND AGNES BRASH F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0082 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
3 1913 IRELAND AGNES BRASH F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0065 No Image ORDER
4 1914 IRELAND ALEXANDER W DOW M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0095 No Image ORDER
5 1896 IRELAND ANDREW M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0272 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
6 1898 IRELAND ANNIE DOWNIE F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0191 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
7 1912 IRELAND DOLINA MCKENZIE F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0181 No Image ORDER

8 1915 IRELAND ERNEST KITCHENE M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0139 No Image ORDER

9 1919 IRELAND FRANCES AMY MCR F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0098 No Image ORDER
10 1920 IRELAND GEORGE JOHNSTON M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0043 No Image ORDER
11 1908 IRELAND JOHN BINNIE M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0106 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
12 1920 IRELAND JOHN BINNIE M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0126 No Image ORDER
13 1909 IRELAND MARGARET ACKERS F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0007 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
14 1906 IRELAND MARGARET MURPHY F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0011 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
15 1910 IRELAND MARTHA JANE LIN F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0164 No Image ORDER
16 1901 IRELAND ROBERT MITCHELL M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0078 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
17 1910 IRELAND ROBERT WILLIAM M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0033 No Image ORDER
18 1917 IRELAND SOPHIA PAGET F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0098 No Image ORDER
19 1911 IRELAND THOMAS BRASH M LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0100 No Image ORDER

Hi Catherine
Thanks a million for all the info.I would never have found this myself and I will certainly let you know when I have the certificate.
Wendy

Hello Catherine
I received the certificate for Ernest Kitchener's marriage today.All your hard work was not in vain.The certificate proves that Ernest was the son of John Binnie Ireland.Thank you so much for all your help.
Regards
Wendy