General Chat

You're confused Guinevere? That makes two of us..... :-S You know I don't like politics...........sob.


I really have to say that I am not the originator of this thread - it was John who posted it. I do, however, enjoy chatting on here about the thing which is the mainstay of my life.

If, for any reason, John decides to delete this thread, I would happily start another one - even if it does mean talking to myself occasionally. :-D


Guinevere - there is indeed the concept of 'righteous anger', although those words are not used in the bible. Personally I prefer the wording of 'righteous indignation'.


To be 'righteous' is to act in accordance with holiness, morality, guiltlessness etc. and to have great anger or indignation when something goes against them - a sense of injustice in those things.


Jesus was angry with the money changers and rightly so. They were turning a holy place into a market - the sense of holiness and worship was being lost.


He was angry with the Pharisees because of their hard attitude - but he didn't want to wreak revenge upon them in fact, he felt sorry for them.


Lashing out at someone or something because one is in a temper, or is feeling bitter or thwarted about something, is not righteous indignation and can lead to sin.


I guess I am fortunate in that I have been blessed with a patient nature and very rarely get angry.....BUT....when faced with a moral or spiritual injustice then......watch me ;-)


I love the saying from the bible........"Be angry yet do not sin - do not let the sun go down on your anger".



A visitor has just popped in for a coffee.......our local friendly RC priest! Funnily enough, he has just mentioned that he always prays as soon as he wakes....


His first prayer is "Oh God, it's morning............." :-D

His next response is a much more traditional and appropriate greeting to the day!

He has a great sense of humour...... :-D

Now I must go and chat to him........

First point is that both Cynthia and I are obviously very committed Christians.
Second, Cynthia sounds absolutely lovely and had been in the Christian fold since childhood by the sound of things (parents in Sally Army etc). I am a Johnny come lately, and have quite a short temper and am nowhere near as nice as Cynthia (had anyone already spotted that?).
Third, the church is very broad and can easily accomodate two such different people and use us both.
Fourth, I totally agree with Gwynne. We don't get excited enough about worldly things, services can often be same old same old, we are too bland at times.

Rev William Grimshaw became Vicar of Haworth in 1742(about a century before Patrick Bronte or Brunty). In those days, it was the law that people attended church. Grimshaw was a big and strong man and used to get extremely angry with some of his parishioners who preferred to sit out his service in the Black Bull opposite.

Grimshaw would say prayers at the start of service and then leave the readings and hymns to be organised by his curate and he would stride across to The Black Bull. Perhaps there were six of his parishioners drinking. He would do the journey from church 3 times, with a man under each arm on his return journey, their feet dangling off the ground. And he would place all six men on a pew. Then he would preach his sermon.:-)

True, I have been in the Christian fold since childhood but, as I said earlier, it was very much an 'only on a Sunday' type of faith for very many years. Then things changed.


I agree with Guinevere about the blandness of the church at the moment. I can only speak for the Anglican church really, but we could certainly do with some strong and gutsy leadership - the type of leadership which guides/encourages/inspires and admonishes when necessary.

Cynthia :-) Had forgotten you saying about "Sunday only". But that gives such a good grounding. You meet a lot of nice people, learn how to speak properly and listen.

That was what I missed out on for first 36 years of my life. I did go to Sunday School for about 4 years and my parents were thoroughly decent people. And I did attend a Welsh speaking chapel in Harrow in London about 1975, and we would all pile into cars after to go down to central London to sing rugby songs lustily in the Prince of Wales in Trafalgar Square area..

I did feel like a fish out of water when I first forced myself to attend church about 1980. I wanted to go, but could not understand the Bible readings, knew hardly any of the hymns and the sermons appeared to be so deadly boring in those days.

Now I feel pretty confident in church and chapel, even amongst people who know vastly more than I do. And, as I approach retirement in 6 months time and am still quite fit and strong, a couple of avenues are opening to serve my Maker more fully. One of them in the Valleys, the other far, far away. Both lay ie no money :-( It is still an incredible journey for me, this Christian life.

John yet again your pompous posting infuriates me.
And since when did the church teach people to speak properly?
It is people like you that turn others against the church (assuming you even go).
It is people like Cynthia that give hope and make us realise that other rantings and generalisations are not what the church is all about!

Errol. I too agree that Cynthia writes some lovely posts that I am sure inspire people. Sorry I disappoint you :-(

John you do not disappoint because I have no expectations of you.
Interested to know how the church teaches people to speak correctly.

Lilybids I agree wholeheartedly with you and look forward to her posts

So, what are you saying lilybids? That my heart is not genuine? That I do not do my best to help God's kingdom on earth? :-S

Not quite sure how I would explain what I mean by "speak correctly", Errol. But I often find it difficult to find the right way to explain something or the right way to challenge somebody. I think when you have learned about Jesus from childhood, even if you later reject the merits of Jesus, you have a big advantage. You tend to use some of the words and expressions that Jesus used.

I have still been a rebel to God for most of my life and it was a big shock when he chose me just over 30 years ago. And I still feel very unworthy. So perhaps I agree with lilybids to a degree :-( But my heart was changed completely 30 years ago - of that I am very clear. :-) :-)

Exactly what words and expressions do you mean?

Just curious - from one who never learned anything about Jesus at a young age, and yet can speak, read and write perfectly well :-D

Sheila may I just say that your post was perfectly written without the benefit of any religious coaching.

John please read what you have written - I have never heard so much poppycock in all my life.

Lilybids please say something contentious so I can actually disagree with you lol

I want to come across on this thread in particular as a "know very little". And in comparison to several others on this thread, that is evident. Even I can see that.

Life is a journey and I still feel that I need to go a long way yet. I hope I am a very humble and gentle Christian, and try very hard to make that obvious in my life through the week. But I can be sparky and short-tempered and waffle a lot - doesn't make me a bad person though, does it?

John you often come across as a bit of a fraud. For example, you posted relatively recently pontificating about what happened in chapel that morning and yet we could all read posts from you that had been written at exactly the same time you were supposedly in chapel.
I sincerely hope I have got you wrong but that sort of thing does not exactly aid your crusade.
On a lighter note, I think that Cynthia is the most genuine, level headed, sensible and mild mannered prson on these boards!

Errol and lilybids. Last thing I want to do is upset anybody on this thread.

I have never written about any church service I have been involved in without being involved in it (very often leading it). Surely you are not suggesting I am making it up. I attend chapel an average of twice every Sunday and attend a couple of midweeks every week. Over 30 years of that very willing commitment to my Lord.

And I love to hear of what has happened in other places of worship and hopefully my own experiences are of some interest too. The reason I do it is because the church that Cynthia attends is C of E and about 200 congregation. My chapels are all smaller than that and there is a spread of congregations. And three different denominations (URC, Methodist and Welsh Annibynwyr (Independents)). It would be nice, I think, if anyone from a Catholic tradition or Scottish Presbyterian tradition also contributed what had happened in their worship.

Tomorrow I am in a little village near Merthyr Tydfil that knows more about coal tragedies than almost anywhere. And we will pray for the family of Lady Thatcher and pray that funeral next Wednesday is respectful and meets the wishes of her family. And next week another mining village up near Heads of Valleys road. Very hard lives, but very happy faces. Love to worship with both congregations - they both give me such a lift.

John you often post about services you have "lead". But there are times when I feel that maybe the minister allows you to sit at the back with your laptop.

I am not upset, even though you have ignored my question. John, I think that sometimes you make a comment, such as the one about 'speaking correctly' without thinking about what you really mean, and then cannot give an answer when asked. I am still curious but will not press, as this is essentially a thread for talking about religion :-)

Hypocrisy hypocrisy hypocrisy.
I was labelled a hypocrit by our self-styled pope and yet I think he needs to look to himself!
Enough of that though - I hope Cynthia brings the thread back around with her genuine and lovely posts

Oh dear!


I have to admit that I am finding some of John's comments extremely exasperating in the extreme this week and it's causing some tension within me as to how to react.

My human self really wants to give him a jolly good 'rattling' and tell him to 'get over yourself'. My spiritual side, however, is feel rather sorry for him because I know the Christian path can be a rocky road to travel.

So that leaves me...........where?


John, if you say your heart was changed 30 years ago, then surely you have learned some self-control re your short-temper? I would have hoped that, in that time, you would have put the past behind you and moved into your new life in Christ.


As for your admitting to being a waffler, the thought of the dangers of the rashly spoken words came to mind.

I rarely quote scripture because I know a lot of folk find it off-putting but have to admit to having a fondness for Proverbs.......


Proverbs 10:19
When words are many, sin is not absent, but he who holds his tongue is wise.


Proverbs 17:14
Starting a quarrel is like breaching a dam; so drop the matter before a dispute breaks out.


Proverbs 17:27-28
A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.


Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.


Proverbs 21:23
He who guards his mouth and his tongue keeps himself from calamity.



Those are very wise words indeed.

Cynthia :-D :-D :-D

That hit home. I too love Proverbs

A brother (or sister) offended is harder to be won than a strong city; and their contentions are like the bars of a castle (Prov 18 v 19)

Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility (Prov 18 verse 12)

Who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies (Prov 31 v 10) :-) :-)