General Chat

I find the term prim quite offensive and derogatory
Yes Spurgeon was a great person as far as homlessness and childless persons were concerned but I still think you are being very selective.
please alter your term "prim" - it is very distasteful

Prims is what they called themselves, Errol :-D :-D Just shorthand for Primitive Methodists. An afectionate term, and absolutely NOT derogatory in any way whatsoever.

Did you know that Methodists was a term of abuse that John Wesley ignored when it was thrown at him? More than that, he turned it round by forming a society of "People Called Methodists"

You will have to explain what you mean by "selective"

And your summary of the achievements of the great 19th century "Prince of Preachers" - well :-0 :-0 If you were writing an obituary for Gandhi, would it be "short, thin, liked peace". :-) Spurgeon's leadership of Baptists and his good works followed on naturally from his being a Christian, knowing God in a very personal way and God granting him gifts of leadesrhip and the greatest preaching gifts of his age. :-)

Good job you're around to answer Methodist questions John.........I'm not really au fait with them. We have a thriving Methodist church not far away and I think we may have a couple of Primitive Methodist churches around here but I'm not sure.


Anyway, good morning Errol - it is now coffee time and I have the chance to natter for a little while. Please, make yourself comfortable and we'll begin :-)


Your question was....".how do I reconciliate with catholic beliefs?"


Hope you aren't expecting an in depth theological discussion on the subject of the schisms 'twixt the Roman church and Anglicanism, ' cos you won't get it from me ;-)

I can only speak from personal experience.

I know that two of the main stumbling blocks are a) Transubstantiation b) the infallibility of the Papal Office.


Personally, neither of the above cause me any great angst whereas, for others, they are an anathema.


Transubstantiation is not a particular hurdle as far as I am concerned. The most important thing to me is that I receive the Sacrament.


In a way, I can see the reasoning behind the thinking of papal infallibility in that it is not the Pope who is infallible per se, it applies to his teaching of faith and morals within the church. I may not agree with it, but I can live with it.


Worship of the Blessed Virgin Mary/The Immaculate Conception/The Virgin Birth are often cited as stumbling blocks too.


Again, I have no problem with people wishing to revere the Mother of Christ as she does, indeed, warrant respect at the very least. I am not altogether sure where the Catholic church get the fact of her Immaculate Conception from or how they know she was free from original sin, but she was an amazing woman.


The Virgin Birth has been debated by theologians for yonks......long before David Jenkins hit the headlines all those years ago. Virgin Birth vs normal birth - whatever the truth - to me, Jesus is still Jesus. If that makes sense.


My main sadness of the division is the fact that we are not allowed to receive the Sacrament in an RC church.... :(


We have 'rubbed shoulders' with several RC priests during our time and, about 6 years before we retired, we lived not far from one who became a close friend. He continues to visit us in retirement and we often discuss church matters - from his side and from ours. We never fall out, can talk about absolutely anything, and our friendship thrives. We refer to him as 'our brother in Christ'. Such is the mutual respect for each other that my husband who is a staunch Anglican, has asked for this friend to speak at his funeral. I'll sort that out when the time comes
:-D


In a way, I have more difficulties with my original upbringing - the Salvation Army who do not include the use of Sacraments in their worship. No baptism no Communion.


Don't know if I have answered adequately but it's the best I can do at the moment.
:-D

Thank you for that Sylvia - most eloquent and succinct.

I think transubstantiation is the one I always have a problem with.

John - the Prim term is just a personal think with me. Incidentally, I was certainly not summarising - merely pointing out that Spurgeon was a great person as far as homlessness and childless persons were concerned.

I think people are often very selective in a debate such as this because it can be so personal.

Sylvia? Sylvia? Who is Sylvia? .....I ask myself.... :-D ;-)

lolol - Sorry Cynthia - profuse apologies.
I blame the fact that I feel dreadful and have a temperature

What a thoughtful post, Sylvia/Cynthia :-D

I had a little thought today following on from the "I'll show you how to have a good time" remark. What is my favourite drink and what do I like eating most.

And, of course, it is communion bread and wine. Before I was a Christian I liked smoked salmon and Newcastle Brown. And a ciggy. :-D :-D Still like smoked salmon, but have not drunk Newcy Brown or smoked since 1984, just over a year after my conversion experience. And would hate them now.

When I was last in India 3 years ago, one of the waiters found out I was a Christian and invited me to his church. You cannot really say "is it Catholic of Protestant?" So we travelled out of Kovalam about 5 miles on a phwt-phwt ( a motorised cycle sort of thing) and it was a magnificent Catholic Church. No seats so we sat cross-legged on the floor. About 800 in congregfation and I was the only white face. Went up and took the wafer and the wine (yes, I know I shouldn't but it felt right).

My only problem was I was facing a life-size statue of Jesus on the Cross, pain of his face and blood streaming down. It seemed such a horrible and negative image. In my church the Cross is always empty, and we celebrate that - as Jesus defeated the enemy of death - so can we one day rise from death with him. :-) :-)

Fgs - have a bit of fun too John. We all feel ble@@y miserable sometimes, but hopefully we are strong and overcome it :-| :-(

:-)

So, we'll have no say as to who might be the next Pope!

We Catholics in the UK are leaderless because it is not easy being God in human disguise. Man-made rules often determine the success or failure of a religion.

We are all swimming in the same swamp & the devil is loose again.

Wend.....I think you'll find John DOES have a good time - just not in the same way as you :-)


Dermot....it's a really unfortunate state of affairs for all Catholics in so many ways. I feel for all my Catholic friends as they must be feeling so rudderless and afloat in a vast ocean.

A good leader is essential for any organisation. Let's hope and pray that, when the vote is taken, the Cardinals choose the right man for the position. :-)

Wend :-D :-D

I have a lot of fun. I remember the last time very well. I went to a Labour Party jamboree and Mr Gaitskill came and had a word with me. How we laughed :-D ;-)

Last Sunday afternoon, the old Wesleyan preacher in my chapel said something very interesting. He mentioned the year 1738 - and must have been later in that year after both John and Chales Wesley had their conversion experiences. Charles on 21st May (Whitsunday in an Anglican church service in City of Westminster - source needed) and John four days later in a midweek "German" Bible study in Aldersgate St, City of London led by Moravians.

Rev Charles Wesley was sitting in a tavern in the City of London with his very good friend and the finest 18th century preacher Rev George Whitfield. Crowds of people went past the window of the tavern and they were all going to hear Whitfield preach at a little publicised meeting round corner.

Charles could see that his friend George was becoming more and more nervous and agitated. "George. You are a natural preacher. The greatest in England. Why are you so worried about these crowds?. God will speak through you. Do not worry, my dear friend?"

"My dear Charles, I am concerned because the crowd wil be so large. Because if more than 5 people assemble to hear me, it will be disbanded by the police and there may be violence.

Apparently, 5,000 heard him, no police were called and it all went off swimmingly.

Best wishes to Benedict, "emeritus pope" in his retirement.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21624149
Pope Benedict XVI has officially resigned, saying that he now "will simply be a pilgrim" starting his last journey on earth.

The pontiff, aged 85, was earlier flown by helicopter from the Vatican to his retreat at Castel Gandolfo, near Rome.

The college of cardinals, headed by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, is now in charge of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics until a new pope is elected.

Benedict vowed "unconditional obedience and reverence" to his successor.

Indeed ................


Best wishes to Benedict, Emeritus Pope, in his retirement.


Let's hope he can have a long, happy retirement.



and that the Cardinals choose his successor wisely.

Thanks for that post, Joy :-D

And amen to your thoughts, Sylvia :-D What a mammoth job for the next Pope.

I am sure I read yesterday that he will be reponsible for 1.2 bn Catholic communicants throughout the world. And I do think that very many outside the Catholic Church will look to him for wisdom and guidance.

Such a frail old man he looked yesterday - much too frail to bear the weight of responsibility of papal office. I too hope that his retirement is peaceful.


There seemed to be such an outpouring of love and respect for him over the last few days and I was interested to see so many under 50's in the vast crowds.


Now we wait and see what happens and whom the cardinals choose. Mind you, some of those cardinals looked even frailer than Benedict, but I noticed quite a few young(er) men in those hallowed ranks.


Interesting times ahead and the church is by no means dead in the water.... :-D



Last night at our Compline service, we had a modern meditation from the perspective of Mary - sister of Martha - after the raising of Lazarus.

It does make me realise that, sometimes, we are just too busy talking and not taking enough time to stop and listen to what God has to say to us.


Have a good day..... :-D

OK .................


does anyone know the answer to this question ...........

Hayley posted a thread on Mothering Sunday, basically about not wanting to receive bought presents from children.

Allan and I then got talking about Simnel Sunday, another name for Mothering Sunday, and Simnel Cake


http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_chat/thread/1320691?page=1



I remember reading somewhere that the making and eating of Simnel Cake was particularly common in Lancashire


Is that true????? Any idea why?????



**
Simnel Cake .................. a rich fruit cake with a layer of marzipan or almond paste on the top, and sometimes also a layer in the middle of the cake. There are usually 11 round "blobs" of marzipan or almond paste spaced evenly around the top ............. they represent the 11 Apostles, minus Judas


I read somewhere that Mothering Sunday was originally called that because it was a day to visit the "Mother Church" of the parishes, also a day when servants were allowed to go home. It was also a day when there was some relaxation of the strict rules regarding what could and could not be eaten during Lent.

Simnel Cake fits into that "richer" food .............. and the fact that some servants would be allowed to make a cake to take home to their mothers.



sylvia

We went to a Trivia Evening last night.

Some of the questions were bible related.

Guess who was the only one in our group who knew the correct answers?



Me. The Pagan :-D

That me me laugh....well done Scozz :-D


Sylvia - I think you are right on all counts. I've added to Hayley's thread.

Mind you, I know more about the history of Mothering Sunday than I do about making Simnel cakes.......I don't like cooking ;-)


Over the last 4 or 5 years, our Vicar has asked me to do the presentation on Mothering Sunday. It's really hard work trying to find a different perspective on the same thing time after time but I think I've cracked it for next Sunday....I hope so anyway :-(

So glad I don't get asked to do it at Christmas and Easter........ ;-)

My grandma (b1888) used to be in service (from age of 8 till her 20's) around turn of last century.

She told me that it was often the only day that many girls and boys got to see their mothers and families. Christmas and Easter were busy times in family they were serving and family needed them. And no annual holidays as part of their contract - which was often 17 hours a day Mon-Sat and many hours on Sunday - just a few hours off for church and a bit of leisure.

So Mothering Sunday - chance to take mum a little present, meet siblings, tuck into a massive dinner as a family and spend a few hours of fun and chat catching up - was a really major day for all those in service. :-)