Genealogy Chat

Hi There In 1850's how easy was it for someone to change their surname and that of their children, was there anything official ? thanks Catherine

It's always been quite easy to change your name and you don't have to do it officially. You can be called by any name you want so long as you are not doing it for fraudulent reasons. My great grandfather and his wife and son changed their surname in 1871 for a very short time (we have information to prove this) and they even christened my grandfather with a different surname. Probably running away from something I should think!!! Went back to using their own surname after a short time. Kath. x

Why do you think your relatives changed their names? nell

Hi firstly thanks for the replies. I have traced back to Frank England born in banwell somerset 1855. But havent found this on free bmd yet! On his marriage certificate he states his father as Abraham a baker. He doesnt mention him being deceased but i know this is not unusual. Last week with the 1861 census on ancestry i have the first breakthough in ages. I found him.... Frank England with his mother and brother george owen and sister Alberta. The mother was priscilla a widow running a baker and grocer shop. All surnames here are england Then I asked for a look up for 1851 someset.... as alberta was born 1850. I very nice lady found me Brawley ?? john 45 baker Priscilla wife 33 born Hereford leonardine?? ( Leinwardine on other census) with England william stepson 10 born in oxford walter step son5 scholar born in shipham Alberta Brawley 1 born in banwell. There is an abraham england who died 1847 in this area. so you can see my query... why are frank and george named as england from 1861 when their father was presumably brawley.

To recap: Frank England born in banwell somerset 1855. [until you get his birth cert you can't be sure who his father was] On his marriage certificate he states his father as Abraham a baker. 1851 census Brawley ?? john 45 baker Priscilla wife 33 born Hereford leonardine?? ( Leinwardine on other census) with England william stepson 10 born in oxford walter step son5 scholar born in shipham Alberta Brawley 1 born in banwell. 1861 census Frank England mother Priscilla England, a widow and brother george owen England and sister Alberta England. There is an abraham england who died 1847 in this area. so you can see my query... why are frank and george named as england from 1861 when their father was presumably brawley. Why do you think their father was John Brawley? Why is there a question mark after Brawley - is the image easy to read? If Frank says his father was Abraham England, why do you think it was John Brawley? I think you need to find out whether Priscilla married an Abraham England after John Brawley. The fact that William and Walter are stepsons shows that Priscilla must have been married before. nell

Priscilla had previously married someone called england and had two sons at least william and walter and a daughter who died priscilla. The she had alberta in 1851 who is alberta brawley. and states on the census she is johns wife. From 1861 alberta is called england and so are george and frank. I just kind of thought it would be unusual to marry someone called england then someone called brawley then someone called england within a few years. I have no evidence of any of these marriages. Catherine

Hmm! That's a strange one Catherine. The only 3 reasons that jump into my head are that maybe, as she's a widow again, she might have reverted to her previous married name (perhaps John Brawley was a brute and she wanted no reminder of him!). Or, that she remarried another person called England, who had also died in the meantime! Or, whoever was the head of the house on the 1861 census, was an England (Walter maybe?), and the enumerator just put the same name down for all the rest? Just guessing and tossing ideas out, really!

Just looked on Ancestry and I noticed in 1861 that Alberta is down as Alberta B England. Do you think the B could stand for Brawley?? She doesn't use a middle initial 1n 1871/81(married surname now Chalk) & 1891. Just a thought!

Catherine I have one that married and had 2 sons...then she turns up with another man with the 2 step sons and has 4 more kiddies one being my g/grandmother) Then! I find her back with number one hubby taking with her a daughter from 2nd marriage! Also a new daughter from 1st/3rd hubby!!!!!! aaaggghhh! ....and you thought YOU had problems!!!! Hope you have better luck than me Gerri x

I have found a Frank England on 1837online Mar 1855 Axminster 5b 16 There is also a Frank Herbert England Dec 1855 I think the district is Bath 5c 617 Could someone have a look at this one, it is handwritten and not easy to read.

Hi Again. Re Alberta you might be right here original middle name was V. Carole thanls for the 1837 info... I had already ruled out the one in axminster, but the one in bath seems more interesting - maybe! thanks to you both Catherine

AS Mr Brawley, a baker like Abraham, seems to have been on the scene for only a short time, and you don't have a marriage between him and Priscilla how about this for a scenario? Priscilla married Abraham England, a baker, and had two sons. He then died in 1847. The bakery business needed to be kept going so Mr Brawley moved in, and fathered three further children, Alberta, Frank and George. Priscilla and Mr Brawley weren't married so the children were officially England, as this was their mother's name, but Alberta at least was known as Brawley while he was still around. However this relationship did not last (or Mr Brawley died) so by 1861 Priscilla was bringing up her children alone, and the children reverted to their official surname. It would be interesting to see their birth certificates as she may even have named her deceased husband on their birth registrations rather than admit they were illegitimate. As long as the registrar didn't know her situation this would have been quite possible.

Hi judith, I think you are definately on the right lines....thanks I have just found john brawley still alive on 1861, a baker in the same village the right age but he says he is a widower! regards Catherine