Genealogy Chat

Cat Well James McCarty/McCarthy/Carter says in 1851 he was born in Marylebone, as opposed to Holborn (1871 & 1881) but I still can't find his baptism or marriage under any variation. I bet he came over on a boat! These Carters are a right mystery. They are in London from at least 1851 onwards. James' son the elusive Charles Albert Carter was a wharf labourer in 1894 when his son (husband's maternal grandpa) was born, but the following year he is at the same address as the birth cert in a street directory as a confectioner! At some point after 1901 the family decamped to Manchester for several years (why?) and then Charles returned to take over running the Pakenham from one of his sisters. He apparently made a lot of money in the pub during the first world war. In the 2nd world war he evacuated to Ruislip and then lived in Brixton. After his wife died, he died without leaving a will, and the housekeeper turned up at his funeral wearing his dead wife's jewellery and fur coat!!! nell

Hi Nell A huge buzz to finally have something to go on after all this time. I was following your Carter/McCarthy thread and I see Katy has just found them in 51 as McCarty! I have a line similar, started off as McGladdery then changed to Gladdery and finally to Gladrey by 1901. They originate in Ireland though so haven't been brave enough to dig too deep into them yet! Lou

Cat I think the longer you have a brick wall the more exciting it is when it is broken through. Yesterday I whined about not being able to find my husband's gt grandfather Charles AlbertCarter's birth cert - the old boy applied for it in 1936 stating place of birth as Southwark and a birth date of 13 Jan 1866. The GRO couldn't find it. He gave 3 different places of birth on the census too, which doesn't help. Then Fiona found the family as McCarthy on the 1861 census - I checked the image and it isn't a mistranscription - low and behold the wonderful GR folk found a birth cert for Charles A. McCarthy in Southwark, Mar 1866. So exciting, but now the mystery of why did they change their name? nell

Hi Tabby I'm rather pleased this morning to say the least! With regards to the licence, it was actually there at the RO. 200 years old with their signatures on and they let him handle it. I'm so jealous! Unfortunately they said it wouldn't copy well so I haven't actually seen the original but to know it exists is amazing! Lou

Hi Lou Congratulations! On the licence/no marriage record point, I have a couple who married by licence. The marriage is on the IGI, but because they weren't known to the vicar there is a blank for the husband's christian name (and of course, until I had details of the marriage, I didn't know the bride's surname). If you have another look at the index, they're probably there, but mangled unrecognisably.

nudge cos I've updated my original posting!

Hi Sue Thanks for the Beeston stuff. I think I've seen that marriage before but I dismissed it at the time cos it's 5yrs after Stonehouse Snr was born. It does look like a realistic prospect though, they could have married after he was born (c1760). I contacted a lady through the Northumberland look up exchange several months ago and she searched years of baptisms for me 'ooop north' but apparantly a lot of records were lost in a fire in the early 1800's so what survives for the time I need is a list that was compiled from memory by the vicars and curates in the area at the time! Stonehouse was a Trinity Pilot so I'm currently sitting on the hope that his papers have survived and are stored at Kew which should give me an indication of where he was born Lou

Sorry for the delay...very long phone call! Anyway, yes, all the children were baptised at Harwich St Nicholas church, as were Henry and all his siblings, which is why I thought there might be a high possibility of them having married there. I've also located one of their children on the 1841 census staying with who I think is probably Sarah's mother in Harwich so possibly Sarah was born there too but no evidence of that as yet I've no idea where the Beeston comes from. Their youngest child was Stonehouse Beeston Stuart born 5th December 1839. I've also found a Sarah B Stuart on the 41-71 census (she never married). Birth year c. 1804 so possibly Henry's sister and on 2 of the census, she is listed as Assistant to Grace Beeston, (who also never married!) who's an Innkeeper so there must be a connection somewhere! No baptism located for Sarah to see whether the B in her name stands for Beeston! My only out of Essex link so far is possibly Sunderland. Henry's father, Stonehouse, gives his birthplace as Sunderland on the 1851 census, although in 41 he is stated as being born in county (Essex) so none the wiser there either! Stonehouse Snr's wife Elizabeth's maiden name was Randfield so my idea that the Beeston came from her was blown out of the water. Can't find their marriage either! Lou

Yes....a glazed expression just about sums it up! B, you could have a point, the child with the birth cert has the unusual middle name of Beeston and despite being back to roughly the 1790's with this line (albeit some unverified), I've still not established where this actually comes from. I shall take Lunar and Sarah up on their offer of assistance (might as well fry your brains too!)... Henry Stuart and Sarah Bell, both born in county of Essex, Henry in Harwich, Sarah, I don't know as she was deceased by the 1851. Eldest child located to date was born in 1815, making Henry 23 and Sarah a minor (20) if the ages on the census/death cert for her are fairly accurate. I have Henry baptism for 1792. There is nothing on IGI or BVRI that fits, no Marriage Licence Allegations for Stuart/Bell, I've had a lookup done at Colchester for Harwich St Nicholas Church and I've viewed the film for the Essex Marriage Register (which claims to be complete!) at the local LDS centre. Nothing on Boyds/Philimores Marriage Indexes and they don't appear to have married in Sussex or Suffolk! Lou x

Having looked at some old notes, to discover a woman who was married in September, only to be widowed in November, when her husband was 21, is it possible that she was previously married? I know the text books say that the birth certificate will spell this out, but they don't in my family, especially where there are no children of the marriage. Mother is asked maiden name and provides it. Not that that makes the search for the marriage any easier, but it might explain why you cannot find it. Good luck. B

They may not understand or be interested Lou, but it's still important to you. Is it worth posting the details you have and getting members here to have a look, sort of 2 heads are better than 1 approach. Have a stiff drink, Lou; and cast aside those uninterested rellies while you do some more serious hard work tracking down your ancesters

Have been searching for a marriage for my 5xgrandparents for a couple of years now. Think I've checked all the obvious places and a few more obscure ones (like different counties!). Then I found out that they'd had one solitary child inside civil reg so I got his birth cert to get her maiden name. Still can't find them! Sorry, moan over, thank you for listening. None of my living rellies understand...when I mentioned this earlier today, I was told 'Oh, never mind, look for someone else then!' Lou UPDATE: Found them....and more besides! Well, I didn't find them, a very wonderful chappie off this site did. They married in Manningtree, Essex, by licence, which explains why I couldn't find them in Harwich but NOT why they don't appear in the Essex Marriage Register. I've also been giving a lead on the origin of the Beeston part of the family. Still to verify all the info passed to me but it appears that Elizabeth Randfield's sister Grace married into the Beeston name. She was widowed young then died herself at the age of 27 leaving baby Grace an orphan. Baby Grace Beeston was raised by Stonehouse and Elizabeth. No leads for years and then all this all at once. Need to calm down now and verify it all piece by piece. Thanks again to everyone who listened to me moaning and came up with suggestions! Lou

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