Genealogy Chat

I think these details are the same person but I cannot remember how I worked to that conclusion. Please see below Abigail

I was looking for a James Martin, born around 1890, not sure where. He married my grandmother in Fleetwood in 1939. He died before 1967. Searching the monumental inscriptions at the local branch library I found a candidate. A James Peter Martin, who died in Chorley in 1943. A brilliant person on here suggested that they may have worked or been ill away from home. Investigating family there was a vague recollection that he died of TB in a sanatorium. I searched the indexes for a match I found a possible and on instinct ordered the certificate. It turns out to be the correct certificate, the age matches the monumental inscription as does the name and area. What I find difficult is that the inscription and the certificate supply different dates of death in June. Given that the name is fairly common in that area is it the right person or have I just found the certificate by an enormous stroke of luck. I don't know what religion he would have been as they were married in a register office but the grave is in the roman catholic area of the graveyard but with no headstone so I have no idea to whom he was related. Is this grave the right one? I have been struggling with this problem for so long that I feel I am missing something very obvious and can't understand how I managed to get the right certificate! If anyone can offer a possible answer or just a fresh summary in their words to get me going again I would really appreciate it. Many thanks Abigail

Abigail, One factor you are overlokking,,,,is that Monumental Inscriptions are just that....its is what has been taken down from the information on a headstone,,(this is a society project) but you then go on to say there is no headstone??? kay.

Abigail, i've looked...but dont know anything about monumental inscriptions. Could the inscripion have been written at the time of his burial, not at the day of death? When you very first posted i did wonder what a momumental inscription was if it wasn't an inscription on a momnument or headstone, which has confused me a more than a bit, as you say there wasn't a headstone. Have you been to the graveyard? Jess

Jess Family History Societies started this project some years ago now,,,members visit grave yards and take info from the headstones in there,,then they have been compiled ,,,to one, and still on going so if you see group people on wet sunday afternoon scurrying round graveyard's looking like they are praying,,they are probally a societies members,,,,,transcribing,,,

I had a look in the monumental inscription index, which gives the inscriptions but also the plot numbers and details, where there was no headstone provided. This gave me the name date and area of the man. When I checked the death indexes the name quarter and area matched the age which he would have been if his birth date had been in 1890 and tied in with his marriage certificate which I already had. His wife was cremated I think so is in Carleton Crem gardens - he could be there too and this grave is a coincidence - I just don't know. I think I could do with checking the Carleton indexes to find her and see if I could cross reference him. i wonder where I will find those particular indexes as I am sure that they are not in Fleetwood branch library as Carleton is in a different area. Abigail

Abigail How different are the dates of death? Is it possible the MI gives the date of burial and not the date of death? nell

I think that must be the explanation as they are only a few days apart although headstones usually state the date of death don't they? Anyway I have the correct death certificate - unfortunately it gives no information as to his origin. I wonder when the system changed to begin recording date of birth etc. which is on his widow's death certificate of 1969? Many thanks Abigail

Abigale; Ages were recorded on death certs up to 1957/8 and by 1969 date of births were used ,,,cant give exact year. when it changed but probaly around 1960??

I think birth date and place, plus a woman's maiden name, began to be put on death certs in 1969, but I can't find the website where I got that info now! It's possible that the mason made a mistake, or perhaps it was transcribed as being date of death when it was his burial. My own great-grandfather has his year of birth on a memorial stone - its a whole year out! I spent a long time looking for a non-existent birth record way back before I was experienced enough not to take every written record as gospel truth. nell nell

Hi Abigail, to answer the question about DOB on death certs - age of the deceased was entered to March 1969, and date and place of birth from April 1969. I'd be surprised to find that the MI gave his date of burial, these usually record the date of death, but like everything else in this game, could be inaccurate depending on who gave the info in the first place, or could be a transcription error on the MIs in the library. I have an ancestor who wrote (and signed) his Will, 5 days after his burial was recorded in the parish register! Best wishes, Carole

Abigail, One sure way of checking this for accurate date of burial is to search the burial register of the graveyard,,,the now Vicar/Priest who precides will have one in his posession. kay;

Have you seen the actual stone with the inscription? For instance on internment. net my great great grandfather's death date was given as 5 April 1918 when in fact it was 15 August 1918 - we know for definite from his Navy papers and the history of the boat that he was on. Pippa

Right, I think that the man in the cemetery might not be the same one but either way it is not going to get me anywhere thinking about it without further proof. SO... I have cross checked his death cert and marriage cert and decided that he must have been born between 27.10.1889 and 16.06.1890. I have searched the birth indexes and guess what? I cannot find him under James Peter Martin. I then searched all of 1889 and all of 1890. I don;t think he was lying about his age because the ages on the certificates agree. So what do all you brainboxes think? Where to next? I have no idea of where he was born so should I check the 1901 census bearing in mind that he was only 10 or 11 at the time and would not have a profession to identify him. I only know his father was a Henry Martin (now a journeyman joiner) Pointers, pretty please!!! Abigail