Genealogy Chat

sorry Kate, it says Joseph William Hansford as the father. (deceased). I'm on hols for a couple of weeks guys, so won't be able to respond for a while. However, it never ceases to amaze me how helpful everyone has been - guess we all know what it is like trying to find out what we can't find out! its what keeps us going! thanks all Linda PS if anyone should find out anything please post me a personal message and I'll check as soon as I'm back.

Linda - it might help if you tell us what the father's name says on the marriage cert - is it Joseph William Hansford or William Joseph Hansford? Kate.

thanks guys for all your searching - I was unable to get to the puter yesterday sorry! Douglas Zoffany is 30 yrs old on the mar. cert in 1922, so he must have been born in 1892. Name of father Dewar Beachcroft (deceased) probably the one you guys have found? Elsie was 26, so she was born in 1896 - marr in Islington. Father William Joseph Hansford (deceased). I think she must have been born Hansford, Joseph died prob when she was quite young, and mother then remarried a Mr Fell. Its so annoying when they just have initials on certs as its difficult to search then. I have gone back to the grandaughter to see if she can remember what the initials stand for in the hope this will give me some more clues. But thanks EVERYONE for being so helpful as always! Linda

Where did Zoffany and Elsie marry?

Looked on Family Relatives 1910-1920 for the death of Joseph William Hansford. The only one whth the correct middle initial was a child. Maybe he was registered without a middle name (Ggrrrr) Tried CWGC site too. Nothing. Maybe he died 1920-22?? You would need to check 1837online for that (Family Relatives index stops at 1920). Here are the FR entries: 1 Hansford Joseph 71 Bridport.5a 410 Death Q1 1920 2 Hansford Joseph 78 Bridport.5a 497 Death Q1 1918 3 Hansford Joseph 26 Poplar.1c 331 Death Q2 1919 4 Hansford Joseph W 2 Woolwich.1d 709 Death Q1 1911 Sarah

I can't find Joseph William Hansford's birth, marriage or death on the 'Civil Registration Index' on ancestry and FreeBMD isn't working at the moment, but if I were you I would try to find the entries for him, and if you manage to find them, you should be able to find out when he died and who his wife was, and then look to see if she remarried, perhaps to a Mr. Fell. I can't see Elsie's birth registration either, under Hansford or Fell, so it might be worth you looking for that as well if you haven't already. Can't think of much else at the moment. Good luck! Kate.

This looks like the one from 1871 census Beachcroft, Zoffany Dewar 1868 March Births South Stoneham Hampshire

I would guess that her step-father's surname was Fell, but too tired to look into it now... off to bed... goodnight... Kate.

Mmm... this is all very interesting stuff guys and your help is inspiring me! Certificate says 'Spinster' and she was 26 when she married. I know he was known as Douglas as I have seen pictures etc. The names in the census are interesting and obviously Zoffany was a family name (named after a famous italian painter I am told). I was also told (by the grandchildren, now aged around 76!) that they thought Elsie's mother was called O'Brien and that Elsie had 2 brothers whose surnames were O'Brien whilst hers was Hansford. She also mentioned Barnardos - could it be she just took in children from there and would she have been paid for doing so? the plot thickens! Linda

I think (possibly) her maiden name was Hansford, and the two witnesses were her sons from a former marriage. how old was she when she married?

This is presumably a bit mistranscribed in 1871 Amy E Beachcroft abt 1864 Malta Daughter South Stoneham Hampshire Ellen K Beachcroft abt 1863 Freemantle, Hampshire, England Daughter South Stoneham Hampshire Joffacey D Beachcroft abt 1825 Chiswick, Middlesex, England Head South Stoneham Hampshire Mary Beachcroft abt 1824 London, England Wife South Stoneham Hampshire Yoffacy D Beachcroft abt 1868 Southampton, Hampshire, England Son South Stoneham Hampshire Ellen H Dominey abt 1839 Southampton, Hampshire, England Servant South Stoneham Hampshire named after his father ( and i would have said his second name was Douglas)

As far as I know - and someone will definitely correct me if I am wrong - the words 'Formerly known as' mean just that. In other words, that was the last name she was using, which may not have been her legal name, and this odd wording SUGGESTS that she was just using the name, rather than being entitled to it - does that make sense? If the words were 'formerly', that is usually taken to mean the maiden name. 'Late' is taken to mean the most recent married name, i.e. a widow or divorcee. First and middle names often got mixed up on Marriage Certs. My own daughter was registered as Jancis Naomi. No one could pronounce Jancis properly (Jancy) and most people thought she was called Janice. So now she calls herself Naomi Jancis and should she ever get married, I daresay that is what she will tell the Registrar her name is. Old Crone

Linda, People are often known by a christian name which is not the first of their several baptismal names so no real problem with those. Elsie coud have been a widow remarying, or if is says on the certificate she was a spinster, since her own father was dead, her mother could have remaried, and she could have adopted her step-father's name, the witnesses could be step-siblings or her mother and step father, or even honorary uncle or aunts. Pam

I have just rec'd a marriage cert c 1922, and I cannot make head nor tail of it! Zoffany Douglas Beachcroft (His name is Douglas and Zoffany is his middle name) Elsie Elizabeth Winifred Hansford (if this follows above sequence does this mean her name was Elizabeth, even tho I know she was known as Elsie?) then below this name is says 'otherwise Elsie Elizabeth Winifred Fell' Also, name of her father is Joseph William Hansford (deceased) and the two witnesses are W A Fell and E M A Fell which isn't very helpful trying to find in census info which I am at the moment drawing a blank. Any suggestions or if anyone can help I'd be v. grateful thanks