Genealogy Chat

Thanks everyone who replied with suggestions before - still getting no further and at a complete standstill - trying to approach it from another angle but my brain hurts! 'My Gt Grandparents went missing after my Grandad was born in 1898 - he was brought up in children's homes. I've tried to find them on the 1901 census, but perhaps they changed their names so the child cruelty people couldn't catch up with them! I don't know why I am persuing these two, but I would love to know if they had more children after my Grandad. They were both very young so there is a chance that they did. So far am trying the emigration angle but no luck so far here. Any more ideas? Thanks A ps Cannot get up to London to find out if there are any records in FRC for the children's homes which might help.' Thanks again A

Thanks Marie - Their names are JOHN CHARLES SOMERVILLE b.1866 0r 1870 ?St Giles ALICE EMILY (nee GINN) b. c1878 St Giles married in 1894 St Mary-le-Strand Hope this might help! A

I'm highly suspicious of this Alice: Alice Somerville abt 1881 Bloomsbury, London, England Servant Bloomsbury St George and St Giles in the Fields London She says she is single and is an assistant in a coffee house. If she is NOT your lady and she really is single, then it is strange that I cannot find her on the 1891 census, nor is there a birth reg for her......... This Alice says she was born in Bloomsbury, which is part of St Giles registration district where your Alice was registered. Merry

I am trying to find John Charles Somerville before his marriage to Alice. Can find no birth reg or anyone that fits on the 1881 or 1891 census...... Have you found him? (I'm guessing you have, as you have given a variable dob for him!) If not, what was his occupation on his marriage cert and what was his father's name and occupation from the marriage cert? Merry

Thanks everyone! JCS's occupation on marriage cert was 'HOTEL COOK' My Mum always said that they were 'both cooks' so the connection with the catering trade is definitely there- MERRY MONTY - yes I agree - that Alice does look a bit suspect, and she is also in the catering business! PERHAPS IT IS SHE! The 'child's' name is also JOHN CHARLES SOMERVILLE b 1898 Strand (although now spelt with 2 m's) JOHN CHARLES sen. has confusing entries for his birth everywhere - he is shown as being born 1866 and christened 1870, BUT his 1894 marriage cert says he is 23. It has been suggested that they were both being a bit economical with the truth about their ages - assuming we have the right people on the census's etc. JCS sen.'s father is GEORGE but he is deceased on the 1894 marriage cert. Again, he is on the 1871 as being from Scotland. Mother ? If I have the right people on the 1871 census, her name is MARY. One of the witnesses is 'M.CLEMENTS' (the other is Alice's Mum) Perhaps this is his mother remarried? Where do I go from here? Thanks again A

Another thought - JOHN is down as a 'widower' on his marriage lines. I haven't been able to trace a previous marriage so far though - but widowed at 23? I suppose however that may have been quite common in those days. A

As you mentioned that sometimes Somerville is written with two M's I checked again for Alice SoMMerville, born abt 1880 in St Giles. NOTHING. I feel very confident that the ''single'' Alice is yours. As she didn't seem to exist in earlier years!! Now - John is more tricky isn't he? I saw the bap you mentioned with George Freer Somerville as the father. And that George Frere Somerville died in 1878 aged 35 and that therefore this is George and family in 1871: George F Somerville abt 1843 Scotland Head St Giles in the Fields London George W Somerville abt 1870 St Giles, Middlesex, England Son St Giles in the Fields London Isabella J Somerville abt 1868 St Giles, Middlesex, England Daughter St Giles in the Fields London >>>>John O Somerville abt 1866 London, Middlesex, England Son St Giles in the Fields London Mary A Somerville abt 1846 London, Middlesex, England Wife St Giles in the Fields London So on that census his dob fits with the baptism, so that's good. I see on the original page that on this census at lease, Mary and son John are said to be born in the City of London, rather than St Giles like the other younger children. Sorry about having to go back before coming forward, but it helps to do this to get a feel for the family.....!! Back in a min.... Merry

Do you know Alice's parents names Margaret

A thought........You said John Charles was married before yet you cannot find a record (and he's actually nearly 30 when he married the second time!) It seems strange to me that I can find no further info on his sister Isabella Jane after the 1871 census (I chose to look for her as she has the most unusual name out of the family group)......no Marriage or Death reg, no entry on the census that looks right..... Now, I expect you have looked harder than I have and maybe you HAVE found something, but I did wonder if Mary had either remarried or assumed another surname after George Freer Somerville's death. If she had a different surname then her children maight have assumed that name whilst they were living at home and that might include John Charles too. Maybe he married the first time using his ''step-fathers'' surname??? Just an idea..... Merry

Thanks Merry- Yes, the thought had occurred that they were hiding under another name - the M. CLEMENTS witness name was all I could come up with, as Ma was called MARY! - I too had tried ISABELLA SOMERVILLE with no luck. (at the moment am trying freebmd for ist wife!) Margaret, thanks - ALICE'S folks were RICHARD and SUSAN GINN regards A

Hope this might help and not hinder - just remembered to mention that Ma of JCS senior was born MARY ANN LEATT. Nothing definite on freebmd - a possibility for 1st wife is - EMILY JANE HENDIN or HEUDIN or HINTON b 1864, m. J SUMMERFIELD 1885 and was dec. june 1886 What do you think? And does this help? think not but is interesting to chase.... nb my maths are hopeless when it comes to all this! regards A

I am beginning to think M Clements is a red herring! Also, I think I may have blown my own theory out of the water!! I think Isabella Summerfield is still single in 1891 and 1901 and says she is born in St Pancras (about 1½ miles from St Giles). I can't find and of them in 1881 at the mo....., but certainly there's no separate Isabella, born in Pancras, on the 1871 census when your Isabella says she is from St Giles. Still thinking..... Merry

Hi merry Yes you may be right about the Clements angle. Still it was worth a try! Is it possible for you look at the census for the ALICE EMILY entry you found? The address on the marriage cert for JCS was 2 WHITE HART ST, STRAND - At one time a coffee house I believe! If she was still there in 1901, then at least we have found one of them. regards A

No such luck I'm afraid!! The address was 64 Neal Street, Bloomsbury (Or St Giles - depending on which bit you read!) If you would like the page, please send me your email addy by personal message. Merry