Genealogy Chat

Thanks I am going to the Archives on Friday so will spend a couple of hours trawling the burial records! Sam x

If you can get to see the burial records, you should also be looking for those youngest children on the 1841 who are no longer with the family in 1851, as further evidence of it being the same family group. If those children didn't die then where are they in 1851?? Merry

Alter, I have the same, Husaband and wife seem to' swap' ages on various censuses! I also have a 56 year old described as daughter when quite clearly she is the wife/mother, in the same family her grandson is described as her son - he is aged 1mth, I don't think 56yr olds were giving birth back in 1881. All these are in the same Roberts family as detailed above so they are giving me a right headache tracing them! Sam x

I discovered recently an incorrect census entry.In a family ,two children were given the wrong age-they were given each others! Mary aged 4 Alice aged 1 should have been Alice aged 4 Mary aged 1

I think the family in each census is the same, but see the problem as being have you found the correct PR entries for this family. I agree with all the points already raised and would also be asking myself: Are there any contemporary baptisms for other Roberts in the BTs? BTs were usually copied out and sent away annually, whilst the baptism register was supposed to be filled in as appropriate throughout the year. Occasionally you do find differences between the two sets of information. I would also check the mother’s name in the previous baptism entry, in case that is Jane!

Never thought of the Jane Maria / Maria Jane senario! Father's occupation matches on all records but this doesn't really mean a lot as every Roberts I have found from that era seems to be a Collier! I will check the burial records to see if I can find a death and am currently rooting through reams of paper to see which baptisms I have verified in the PR's. The IGI has the baptisms of William, Anne and Mary(?) - all with Maria as the mother. I have also found a marriage in the PR's of Joseph Roberts and Maria Ashwood in 1824 but found this and stopped looking so there could possibly be one for a Joseph Roberts and Jane. Thanks for all your input, you have all given me ideas on what else I can check. Sam x

You have seen the parish register. Was the father's occupation correct? Did you check for the baptisms of the younger children? Did they have the same mother? Was the father's occupation the same in each instance? Have you found a marriage for the father? How do you know the register is wrong and not the 1841 census? Every record is susceptible to error. Another possibility is that the mother is Maria Jane (or Jane Maria!) Have you looked at the burial registers? As you are moving to a period before civil registration, you need as many references as you can find to your family.

Certainly in small village situations I have found that when you have a number of brothers some of whom have married wives with the same first name, the vicar can get them confused.

Second wife is a good possibility, i will look for a marriage of Joseph and Jane and a possible death for Jane. Apparently the parish records for St John's in Hanley for the period c1825-c1831 were destroyed in a fire and the records I looked at were Bishop's Transcripts. I think it is the same family but really wanted to see what other people thought before I went away meriily tracing the wrong family (not for the first time!) Thanks Sam x

They sound like the same family to me. Could Joseph have been married twice. Once to a Jane, who was the mother of his first two children, and then a second time to Maria, who had the other children. This would account for the different mother's name on the IGI. Having said that I don't always rely on the IGI being correct, but if you've confirmed the information in parish records, then there has to be an explanation and the two marriages are all I can come up with. Kath. x

Depends on how conscientous the Clergyman who kept the records was. Also some have been lost, stolen or destroyed particularly during the English Civil War.

Sam Certainly looks like the same family. Did you find the other childrens baptisms? Maybe Maria was his second wife? Jacqui

Hi In 1841 I have the following family: Joseph Roberts, 35, Collier Maria, 35, Painter William, 15, Collier John, 13, Collier Joseph, 9 Anne, 7 Thomas, 4 Edward, 1 Living in Chapel Street, Hanley, Stoke on Trent and all born in the county. On the 1851 census I have: John Roberts, Head, 23, Collier, born Hanley Jane, wife, 22, born Burslem John, son, 7mths, born Hanley Anne, sister, 18, Cap Maker, born Hanley Mary Malpas, sister in law, 18, cap Maker, born Burslem Again, living Chapel Street, Hanley. The family in 1851 are definately mine and I have the marriage cert from 1850 for John Roberts and Jane Malpas, Johns father is named as Joseph Roberts, Collier. As the 1851 John and the 1841 John are the correct age and living in the same street and have the same father (Joseph) and have the same sister (Anne), I thought they might be the same people. However, the IGI has a baptism for John Roberts in 1828 in Hanley with parents as Joseph Roberts and Jane. I have checked parish records in Hanley Library and can only find the same baptism. Could the name Jane have been entered in error and his mother is really Maria? Does anyone else think they are the same family or am I clutching at straws? Also in 1861 John and Jane are living in Manchester next door to a William Roberts (from Hanley) and in 1871, the children of John and Jane are back in Stoke on Trent (Burslem) living with William and are described as neices and nephews. the 1841 John also has a brother called William. Sorry for the length but would appreciate a second opinion! Sam x

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