Genealogy Chat

Your valued opion is sought on this problem. My ancestor Ann Mountford bon/christened 20 May 1824 at Dodderhill, Worc married John Byng (cert) 31 may 1852 At Dodderhill. she had a son John b 1853 c 30 Dec 1855 at Bromsgrove. 9Sept 1858 she had James (cert) at Aston, B,ham. The cert does not say fathers name or occ. Now census 1851 Ann is living with her mother and (stepfather) she has a daughter Catherine age 3 (mother is name Davis) at Bromsgrove. Catherine is born at Bromsgrove. 1861 Ann Byng is living at Aston, B,ham with John (son) James (son) Ann (daur) 1 day old all the children are named Byng No sign of John Byng her husband 1871 Ann Byng is living in Walsall, Staffs she is listed as housekeeper. she is with Edward Smallwood son to head Eliza Smallwood daur to head ? Smallwood daur to head Francis Small son to head John Byng son to housekeeper Frank Byng son to housekeeper age 2 Margaret Byng daur to housekeeper 3 months old Her son James is visiting in Handsworth with Edwin Smallwood I have not found John Byng her husband on any of the census couldn't find a death. The children other than John and James seem to have disappeared also. Couldn't find Ann on later census (ie 1881) and looked under Smallwood too. Would you say (I am sorry for this) that Ann was a tart or at least a loose woman? Should I save up and try for more certs re her children. Opinions please Thank you Pat

may I? Please have a look at this Your valued opion is sought on this problem. My ancestor Ann Mountford bon/christened 20 May 1824 at Dodderhill, Worc married John Byng (cert) 31 may 1852 At Dodderhill. she had a son John b 1853 c 30 Dec 1855 at Bromsgrove. 9Sept 1858 she had James (cert) at Aston, B,ham. The cert does not say fathers name or occ. Now census 1851 Ann is living with her mother and (stepfather) she has a daughter Catherine age 3 (mother is name Davis) at Bromsgrove. Catherine is born at Bromsgrove. 1861 Ann Byng is living at Aston, B,ham with John (son) James (son) Ann (daur) 1 day old all the children are named Byng No sign of John Byng her husband 1871 Ann Byng is living in Walsall, Staffs she is listed as housekeeper. she is with Edward Smallwood son to head Eliza Smallwood daur to head ? Smallwood daur to head Francis Small son to head John Byng son to housekeeper Frank Byng son to housekeeper age 2 Margaret Byng daur to housekeeper 3 months old Her son James is visiting in Handsworth with Edwin Smallwood I have not found John Byng her husband on any of the census couldn't find a death. The children other than John and James seem to have disappeared also. Couldn't find Ann on later census (ie 1881) and looked under Smallwood too. W ould you say (I am sorry for this) that Ann was a tart or at least a loose woman? Should I save up and try for more certs re her children. Opinions please Thank you Pat

who is this in 1871 then? View Record Ann Byng abt 1822 Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England Wife Bromsgrove Worcestershire View Record John Byng abt 1824 Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England Head Bromsgrove Worcestershire View Record Sarah Byng abt 1853 Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England Daughter Bromsgrove Worcestershire View Record Susan Byng abt 1858 Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England Daughter Bromsgrove Worcestershire

Thanks Jess But that is a different family. I thought they were mine at first but when Ann and John got married in 1852 she was 25 and he was 40. Thank you anyway Pat

cant find the 1871 to which you refer

1871 Walsall Borough, Staffordshire. Bridge Street. Stubbs Buildings No of schedule 222

do you have a ref that starts RG10..... keep for ref:: Source information: RG10/2960 Folio 75 page 44 Registration district: Walsall got it View Record Ann Byng abt 1829 Wichbold Head Walsall Staffordshire View Record Frank Byng abt 1869 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Tohousekeep Walsall Staffordshire View Record John Byng abt 1853 Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England Son Tohousekeep Walsall Staffordshire View Record Mary A Byng abt 1871 Walsall, Staffordshire, England Daughter Housekeeper Walsall Staffordshire View Record Catharine Smallwood abt 1862 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter Walsall Staffordshire View Record Edward J Smallwood abt 1853 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son-in-law Walsall Staffordshire View Record Eliza Smallwood abt 1857 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter Walsall Staffordshire View Record Frances Smallwood abt 1864 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Walsall Staffordshire

Re-check the 1861 census for Ann Byng - transcribed as: Ann Byng abt 1828 Dodonll, Warwickshire, England Head Birmingham Warwickshire -it looks as if she was widowed. Check the W next to her name (could be confused as an M) but compare it to the W for William King at top of page. Elaine

looking at 1871 image it says those smallwoods are also son/daughter to housekeeper and that she is a widow

I read the 1871 image as Ann had originally been shown as head but then Housekeeper written over it and 'head absent' inserted above. Therefore the Smallwood children belonged to the absent head. As Ann was widowed she would have needed a live in job to enable her to keep John's child/children. I wouldn't call her a loose woman exactly although she apparently didn't marry the father of James and Ann. At a guess she went to live in as a housekeeper to help Mr Smallwood care for his children and ended up living as man and wife. Although she has been honest with the census enumerator it could even have been that the neighbours all knew her as Mrs Smallwood - this was the case with a family in my village in the 1960s and must have happened often. As for purchasing birth certificates, as she didn't give James' father's name she may well not have done so for the later children. Think I might look for baptisms before going to the expense of buying more certs.

Thank you all for your help I think I will look for Baptisms first before buying any certs. I also think I need to buy myself some glasses first as you have all found details I missed. It's amazing how others can see what's staring you in the face. I truly am grateful for your help and your time. Hope one day I can return the favour. Pat

By 1881 Edwin seems to have made an honest woman of her, or perhaps they just decided to claim to be married this time round: 80 Berner Street, Aston Edwin Smallwood Head mar 59 Devonshire slipper maker Ann Smallwood Wife 53 laundress Kate Smallwood dau 23 Eliza Smallwood dau 19 Fredrick Smallwood son 17 Frank Smallwood son 12

Judith Thank you so much I don't know why I couldn't find it (must be real thick or blind). Off to the opticians tomorrow definatley need an eye test I think. Pat

It's not just a question of 'she didn't give the father's name' as there were strict rules governing father's name on the birth certificate and if she wasn't married to the father and he didn't go with her to register the birth, she wouldn't have been allowed to put his name on the certificate. If you can get the marriage certificates for any of the children it is possible that they named their father on there because there don't seem to have been rules about that. Kate.