Genealogy Chat

Thanks Nell & Ozi. Sorry for the delay in answering, there must be an 8-9 hour time difference. I do understand about age variations on the Census. Thomas’s wifes age on the 1851 Census is 1 and on her marriage certificate 34 a difference of 3 years. Guess I was looking for some magical formula, when you come across 2 or more families with similar backgrounds, age, DOB, place, trade etc. you could be sure you had the correct family. I will follow up on the tips you gave me. Thanks again and Merry Christmas. Malcolm

Malcolm Firstly information on censuses and certs is only as good as the information provider and recorder make it! Usually if someone is married before it will say so on the cert, though not necessarily. Secondly, getting married in ones 40s, although less usual, is not that rare. I have a gt gt grandfather who married at the age of 46 who went on to father 4 children and lived well into his 80s. My record is a gt gt uncle who married for the only time at the age of 69, but he didn't father any children as his wife was just a few years younger! Thirdly, his father may be the chap you found in 1851, but he might equally well have become a tailor in later life, or have done something less exalted and had tailor put on the cert by a son trying to impress his inlaws. My gt uncle put that his father was a 'provisions merchant' on his wedding cert, and his dad was actually a milk carrier! nell

Nell, The Thomas on the 1891 & 1901 Census is the one I’m looking for. I do have a copy of his marriage certificate so I know he Fathers name was Robert and a tailor by trade. What is confusing me is the different estimated birth years. The only reason I thought he may have been married before was his age when he got married 40-44 Malcolm

A possible first marriage for Robert: Pallot's Marriage Index for England: 1780 - 1837 Record Name: Robt Sullivan Spouse: Elizth Cook Marriage Date: 1834 Parish: Whitechapel, St. Mary nell

1851 census has the Thomas born 1841 with father called David Sullivan, born in Cork, so I guess yours is the one in Shrops. There are two Thomas Sullivans both born 1838 in Shoreditch, on the 1851 census. So I think you need to be sure the Thomas you have traced through the censuses is the right one. nell

Both from 1881: Thomas Sullivan abt 1841 London, Middlesex, England Lodger (Head) 9 Wakefld Yd Lodging House Nottingham Rd, Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England Thomas Sullivan abt 1838 London, London, Middlesex, England Servant Adderley Hall, Adderley, Shropshire, England which one is your chap?

Is this him in 1871: Name: Thos Sullivan Age: 30 Estimated birth year: abt 1841 Relation: Lodger Where born: London, Middlesex, England Civil Parish or Township: St George the Martyr Southwark RG10/602 Folio: 50 Page: 16 Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Sub-registration district: Borough Road

I'd also suggest you ask for an 1841 look up to see if you can find this family - it would tell you whether Thomas was born before or after census night 1841 and who his mother should be as well as perhaps giving you some siblings for him. Were the witnesses on his wedding cert family members? nell

Finding the right birth cert - if he was born Shoreditch, that;s a reg district in its own right. Spitalfields would be under Whitechapel reg district. So find all the Thomas Sullivan births registered in GRO indexes for either of those places in the relevant time frame and order one, specifying father must be a tailor called Robert! nell

1901 Census Thomas Sullivan YOB abt.1838, Birthplace Parish not known, Middlesex, 1891 Census YOB abt.1839, Thomas Sullivan birthplace Midlands London. 1881 Thomas Sullivan's marriage cert age 40 so his YOB would be abt.1841,Fathers name Robert Sullivan, trade tailor. 1861 Robert Sullivan YOB abt.1806 trade tailor, wife Jane, Spitalfields, Middlesex. Also 1861 Thomas Sullivan YOB abt.1839 birthplace Spitalfields, Middlesex. 1851 Robert Sullivan YOB abt.1806 trade tailor wife Elebeth (Elizabeth?) son Thomas YOB abt.1838, Shoreditch, Middlesex. only birth record I have found on the IGI Thomas Sullivan is 10 Aug 1837, Father Robert Sullivan, Mother Elizabeth. ************************************************************************* Re-typed it to clarify in my head. OK, first question, why do you think Thomas' marriage in 1881 may be his second? Does it say he is a widower? nell

Thanks Jeanette I was about to edit when I hit the send button. Malcolm

With the help of a lot of members I have been researching my Great Grandfather Thomas Sullivan. What I have so far is, from the 1901 Census YOB abt.1838, Birthplace Parish not known, Middlesex, from the 1891 Census YOB abt.1839, birthplace Midlands London. From his marriage cert in 1881 age 40 so his YOB would be abt.1841, his Fathers name was Robert Sullivan, trade tailor. (This maybe Thomas’s 2nd marriage) On the 1851 Census there is a Robert Sullivan YOB abt.1806 trade tailor wife Elebeth (Elizabeth?) and a son Thomas YOB abt.1838, Shoreditch, Middlesex. On the 1861 Census there is a Robert Sullivan YOB abt.1806 trade tailor, wife Jane, Spitalfields, Middlesex. Also on the 1861 Census there is a Thomas Sullivan YOB abt.1839 birthplace Spitalfields, Middlesex. The only birth record I have found on the IGI for Thomas Sullivan is 10 Aug 1837, Father Robert Sullivan, Mother Elizabeth. There are also several death records on FreeBMD for Elizabeth Sullivan between 1851 and 1861, so there is a possibility that Robert Sullivan remarried. What I am trying to do is connect Thomas Sullivan (1837-1841) to Robert Sullivan a tailor, and is there anyway of being sure of getting the correct birth certificate for Thomas. Thank you all so much. Happy Holidays Malcolm now more readable Jeanette

With the help of a lot of members I have been researching my Great Grandfather Thomas Sullivan. What I have so far is, from the 1901 Census YOB abt.1838, Birthplace Parish not known, Middlesex, from the 1891 Census YOB abt.1839, birthplace Midlands London. From his marriage cert in 1881 age 40 so his YOB would be abt.1841, his Fathers name was Robert Sullivan, trade tailor. (This maybe Thomas’s 2nd marriage) On the 1851 Census there is a Robert Sullivan YOB abt.1806 trade tailor wife Elebeth (Elizabeth?) and a son Thomas YOB abt.1838, Shoreditch, Middlesex. On the 1861 Census there is a Robert Sullivan YOB abt.1806 trade tailor, wife Jane, Spitalfields, Middlesex. Also on the 1861 Census there is a Thomas Sullivan YOB abt.1839 birthplace Spitalfields, Middlesex. The only birth record I have found on the IGI for Thomas Sullivan is 10 Aug 1837, Father Robert Sullivan, Mother Elizabeth. There are also several death records on FreeBMD for Elizabeth Sullivan between 1851 and 1861, so there is a possibility that Robert Sullivan remarried. What I am trying to do is connect Thomas Sullivan (1837-1841) to Robert Sullivan a tailor, and is there anyway of being sure of getting the correct birth certificate for Thomas. Thank you all so much. Happy Holidays Malcolm