Genealogy Chat

Make that three!!! There's not a hope that the government, or what masquerades as that, will change the 100 year rule for 1911. Nor should it, I recall a thread on soc.genealogy.britain a year or so ago in which Rod Neep of Archive CDBooks described the 1911 census. There are no enumerators sheets which is what we see for all the other censuses. There are simply the householders schedules, the double sided forms completed by each household. Many of these are missing. Many of those that survive are incredibly damaged, parts of the pages missing, torn, or water stained. So when they are finally released in 2011/2 or whenever a lot of genealogists are going to be seriously disappointed. And as he says the cost of filming them will be at least 10 times the cost of filming the 1901 then it will be interesting to see what the cost of viewing them will be. David

Minority of two, Olde Crone! Look, folks, you could well be overestimating public support for early release. In Australia's last census, people were told they could either have their details kept and then released in 99 years (similar to our system) or they could have the census returns shredded once the government had finished extracting the statistical information from them. Roughly half the population opted to have their details shredded. No, they didn't expect they would be alive in a century and no, 50% of Australians are not hiding something dreadful. If the government ever seriously considered changing the closure period to allow census release during the participants lifetime, then it is highly likely there would be an opt-out system. For starters, Data Protection states that data can only be used for the purpose for which it was collected - and genealogy is not the prupose of censuses! DPA only applies to living people, and in theory anyone still alive could object to the release of their census information. Hence, 100 years. Accept that with 1911 you are flogging a dead horse. Transcription projects take years and TNA is already working on it. New 'early release' legislation would take a few years as well. If it were released early you probably wouldn't be allowed access, either because it is in as bad a condition as some sources imply or because it had already been shipped off to Mauritias to be transcribed. If you REALLY want to make a difference, write to your MP asking that the government spend more on heritage in general.

Germaine Thankyou for that - you have confirmed what I THOUGHT I knew!!! As for the point about 80 year old peiple not being upset to discover they were illegitimate, or have the whole world discover their father turned into a mass murderer, or whatever - well, I can only say this shows an incredible lack of understanding about the deep shame many older people feel about their origins. No-one cares NOW - but these people lived with the misery of it AT THE TIME. Yes, you can find these things out in other ways, but you have to be determined to do so, it isnt usually a casual discovery made from browsing the Internet. And I do wish people would stop saying 'They got it early in America, why can't we?' This is B RITAIN, not America or France, and we have our own laws, not theirs. I am probably in a minority of one, here, but I am glad our Parliament has stuck to its guns on this - they made a promise (well, their predecessors did) and for once, have kept it. Olde Crone

A couple of questions - Why is the USA in front of us here? Yet they are more cagey about issuing recent certificates. Why do most other personal documents only have an 80 year closure on them eg my grandfather's personnel records from the police force, and loads of others from the national Archive. You could argue these are potentially a lot more 'private' than census info. Anyone worried about skeletons - you can find out anything easily enough now, if you know how. Releasing the 1911 & 1921 census now would help us fill in so many gaps while we still have a chance to talk to some of our older generation about any mysteries it throws up.

I would guess at most half a dozen. I know someone who was 101 in December. I would have thought that at that age finding out that, for example, your parents weren't married, your father was in gaol or your older brother was an imbecile really wouldn't have that much of a devastating effect on you and I don't think there was a section to declare your religious persuasion.

If the census was to be released early the youngest people would be now who were on the census would be 95 - 115. People who are 95-105 would just say they were scholar or something similar . People who are 115 now were 20 then - what horrible secrets could be lurking about them that they don't want anybody to know!!!! Penny PS Does anybody know how many people 110+ are alive today?

Oh glad that was what you meant Sue Was scared I had upset you. LOL Germaine x

Oh yes Germaine, I didn't phrase it very well, but yes that was what I was trying to say...lol...thankyou for putting it better! Sue

Thing is Sue this can happen with almost any census. It is something you have to consider when starting your tree will what you find be pleasing to you. Germaine x

Nell, Yes, I totally agree with what you've said.... just because people on the 1911 census may or may not be alive in 2011, there is always the possibilty that a relative will be affected by the information on the census... Sue

Exactly what I thought Nell, funny thing is that at the time I was putting in down there was a item on the news about identity fraud and how much it is costing the country. If that is how bad things are at the moment I don't know what big deal it is in letting records from 100 years ago be released 5 years early. Germaine x

Oh Germaine, That information doesn't look too hopeful, does it?...Perhaps the petitions that are going on with our MP's at the moment will change things....I do hope so... Sue

That doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. The point at issue is - whose confidentiality are they protecting? What dark secrets might be disclosed that could cause distress to people living today and how can they be sure that when they do release the census in 2012 it won't cause distress then?! nell

thought you may find this interesting. It is the reply my MP recieved after making enquiries about 1911 census. The 1911 Census records were formally transferred to the National Archives as historical records and as such their closure period of 100 years was specified by Instrument 12 dated 1966 of Section 5 (1) the Public Records Act 1958. the Freedom of Information Act repealed Section 5(1) with effect from January 2005 but we believe that exemptions in the Freedom of Information Act allow for Government and Census policy with respect to the closure of census records to be maintained. The National Archives and the Office for National Statistics are mindful of the most recent restatement of government policy when it considers requests for access to information contained in the 1911 census returns. In a debate in the House of Commons held on March 20004 the Minister at the Department of Constitutional Affairs reaffirmed that, in the Governments view, a closure period of 100 years strikes the right balance between the access of family historians and the right of citizens to have personal information about themselves in their census returns kept confidential. As he explained. “The Government believe that maintaining the security and confidentiality of the information that citizens supply about themselves in their census is of paramount importance. It is strongly in the national interest that public confidence in these confidentiality assurances is maintained”. I understand that the National Archives are developing plans to make the 1911 Census widely available online to the public in January 2012.

See below Germaine x