Genealogy Chat

i have been trying ages to find my GG grandparents marriage last April sent off but thought wrong as had carpenter for him and father. On all censuses they where Undertaker assistants well looked on the free index on ancestry could not find my G grandfather but found his sister sent off to get maiden name of my GG grandmother came to day it was Barber the same as cert from last April Grrr on daughter birth cert down as coffin maker they where made out of wood so nouther wall down and a new family to trace:0) Jeanette

I was just saying this on my military buff thread. My hubbys GGF married in 1890 in a registry office just 4 weeks before the first child! Occupation shown as Gardener - he was actually a GUARDSMAN, a sergeant in the 1st Scots Guards. If I hadnt got other documents with the correct info on, I would have been completely thrown. We tend to think all official docs are correct, but human error had caused this - the clerk copying out from the register no doubt.

People often exaggerated their occupation up a social scale. My gt uncle said his father was a 'provisions merchant' on his wedding cert - he was a milk carrier! Similarly, I have a couple of ag labs who are transformed into farmers. nell

Particularly if the groom was standing there in full uniform! (I have this romantic idea of a scene like the Madding Crowd)

Heather, I have similar marriage cert to yours. My 'Troy Tempest' was definitely a Coldstream Guard before and after marriage in 1874...so why is he listed as a Bank Clerk on the marriage cert? Definitely the right couple, so I assumed it was a clerical error. However, their first child was born 3 months after the wedding! Do you think that maybe soldiers weren't supposed to have 'shotgun weddings' so they lied about their occupation? Just a thought.

Natalie, that was my first thought when I saw the cert. Apart from the fact the bride was virtually pushing a pram up the aisle and that they married in a registry office, he had actually given a false address on the cert. He was living in barracks but gave an addy apparently next door to the bride. Now again, I thought perhaps he did that to save money on banns for two areas, but you dont have banns for registry offices do you? Then I read somewhere you needed the officers permission to marry and that you were not supposed to marry until you reach 30 - this guy was 28. Yes, perhaps he went to say 'Guardsman' and then strung it out to 'gardener' to cover up? We will never know, will we if they sat in a pub with their mates after the marriage, laughing about him nearly blowing it. I wonder if Keith and Vickie have an opinion on this. I will add a message to the military buff thread.

I have 2 marriage certificates for ludwig schaff, the one to his firsy wife says his fathers name was ludwig, she died and he married 4 years later only now his father is called conrad??? how does that work. I know it is the same person, ages, address, occupation all add up.

Well, in reply to Heather's query about needing permission if you married while in the army ... short answer - don't know! My gt grandfather married while he was in the army (age 29), and he wouldn't have got away with giving false details because they were married in India, by the Army Chaplain. (Oh - and it was 'after declaration' - I suppose Banns are pointless when you're thousands of miles away from all your rellies & friends!) Don't know whether he would have needed his Commanding Officer's permission for the wedding - but I bet they needed it to get HER to India with the regiment. He was only a Sgt then, I wouldn't have thought his rank entitled him to special treatment. (Bit of a puzzle to me why his bride went out there with him but that's another story. Gateshead can't have been so bad she'd go half way round the world to get away from it?) On a different subject - I only recently found out that apprentices couldn't marry while they were indentured - and some apprenticeships were 12 years or more - so its possible younger men lied about their occupation to avoid being caught out. From the reading I've done, apprenticeships in those days sounded like a thinly-disguised excuse for slavery. I'm sure some folks told porkies just to sound better than they really were, with their own as well as their father's occupations. The above gt grandfather & his bride both said their fathers were butchers - well, all the censuses I've seen they were coal miners. My favourite is a ''retired master baker'' - yes he was, in his 20's, but by the time his youngest daughter married he'd been a porter & general labourer around Wandsworth & Battersea for nearly 20 years.

just found the Barber family my GG grandmother before marriage was a Valentine Maker so was her sister. very apt for today Jeanette

Heather. Mine was 33 when he married (so no excuse there). They married in Southwark (he was stationed at Tower of London). It's just a mystery why his occupation is given as Bankers Clerk. I guess we'll never know! I thought the idea of your ancester saying 'Guardsman.....ahem......Gardener' was priceless! Perhaps the vicar in my case misheard 'Coldstream Guard' for 'Bankers Clerk'. I hadn't thought of that before! My ancestor was Scottish, so if he had a strong accent........it's just about possible!

How strange Natalie, as the Scots Guards told me my guy must have been at the Tower of London. He was in Lodgings in Bermondsey. When he left he lived in Southwark and worked as a Railway Porter. I thought that would be a bit of a come down from the Guards but apparently they were sought after as the Railways at that time was a prestige job and military men were just the sort they needed. The more I think about it the more I think he was fibbing for some reason - why give a false addy? Did your guy give his proper addy? Yes I keep imagining this 8 months pregnant bride with this tall guardsman and no doubt her mate and his mate as witnesses and them all stiffling titters when he almost said his real job! Vickie, same goes for watermen/lightermen - they had an eight year apprenticeship and were not allowed to marry. I had one guy of mine started his apprenticeship after about 4 years got married. Next thing he is a dock labourer, then he must have been allowed back - in all it took about 20 years for him to complete his papers!!

My ggf was 28 when he married was in the Grenader Guards at the time and gave an address away from the barracks and his previous trade, I don't think there is anything sinister about this because with his service record is Army Form A.22 which listed all details of the marriage. Keith

I havent got that form Keith with his records? I still think this guy was fibbing, his occupation wasnt a gardener before he joined up, he was a mail coachman.

Keith: Do you think my ancestor may have given a previous trade? It's possible, as he put Banker's Clerk and his son went on to become a Bank Manager. Annoyingly, I have tried to get his military record from Coldstream Guards, but they could not track it down. It would certainly help piece things together. Heather: Mine both gave same address (only a street name) as their residence at time of marriage. Even 7 months pregnant, I think that's a bit unlikely! Incidentally mine was on 1871 Census at Tower of London, but it's a common name. Luckily his witness was a Policeman posted at Tower of London at same time!

Nat, Ive pmd you.