Genealogy Chat

For the past twelve months I have been looking for information on my Gt Grandfather Thomas Brown. He is on the 1901 census (born abt 1888) with his family in Smethwick, Staffordshire. With help from others the family has been traced back to 1851, in the same area, but with the name WITHERS. Can anyone help with the why? I can't find a marriage that would result in a complete name change.. Any suggestions please. Thanks, Colleen

Hi not be registerd---- didn't marry ? Pages missing ? Ann

Perhaps his ancestor remarried and the children took the stepfather's name. Heather

can you post 2 census- one with him as Withers and one as Brown please

is this the 1901? Charles Brown abt 1880 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Son Smethwick Staffordshire George H Brown abt 1886 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Son Smethwick Staffordshire Maria J Brown abt 1890 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Daughter Smethwick Staffordshire Mary J Brown abt 1858 Netherton, Staffordshire, England Wife Smethwick Staffordshire Thomas Brown abt 1888 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Son Smethwick Staffordshire William Brown abt 1857 Princes End, Staffordshire, England Head Smethwick Staffordshire Fanny Ewins abt 1841 Burton, Staffordshire, England Boarder Smethwick Staffordshire ---------------------------------------- and 1891? Careloss Withers abt 1822 Sedgley, Staffordshire, England Mother Harborne Staffordshire Charles Withers abt 1879 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Son Harborne Staffordshire George Hy Withers abt 1886 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Son Harborne Staffordshire Maria J Withers abt 1890 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Daughter Harborne Staffordshire Mary J Withers abt 1858 Dudley, Staffordshire, England Wife Harborne Staffordshire Thomas Withers abt 1888 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Son Harborne Staffordshire William Withers abt 1857 Dudley, Staffordshire, England Head Harborne Staffordshire

Clue?........That Careless Withers on the 1891 census (thankyou Jess!) : Deaths Jun 1909 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BROWN Careless Withers 86 King's N. 6c 268 Not sure how this helps....!! LOL Have you got this cert?? I wondered about who registered it? Merry

Hmmm.....no apparent clues with their marriage: Marriages Jun 1844 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WAKLAM Careless Wolverhampton 17 316 WITHERS John Wolverhampton &c 17 316 Merry

Careless in 1901: Carless Brown abt 1822 Bilston, Staffordshire, England Mother Smethwick Staffordshire Albert Cook abt 1879 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Son Smethwick Staffordshire Arthur Cook abt 1891 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Son Smethwick Staffordshire Caroline Cook abt 1888 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Daughter Smethwick Staffordshire Clara Cook abt 1881 Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Daughter Smethwick Staffordshire Maria Cook abt 1848 W'hampton, Staffordshire, England Head Smethwick Staffordshire Apologies if you have all this already!! Merry

Did Careless confess to being careless?? Maybe her son, William, was the child of a Mr Brown and not the son of her hubby, John Withers?? Merry (sorry, prob being flippant!)

A few possibilities, but I don't think they'd be easy to prove: 1. Careless remarried between 1891 and 1901 to a Mr Brown who then died and in his memory her son decided to take his surname. But I've just realised that you say you can't find such a marriage. 2 Husband John Withers was actually born John Brown and took his step father's name of Withers. Or he was born out of wedlock, christened John Withers Brown as his father was a Withers. Then after he died Careless had a falling out with her in laws and decided to use Brown instead. 3 There was some sort of pension/annuity which had his 'official ' name of Brown so Careless had to use that name to claim the cash. 4 A rich relative of the name Brown left the Withers some money on condition that they changed their name to Brown.

Hi, Jess That is the right family. I have sent for the death certificates of William Brown and Careless Withers Brown in the hope that they will shed more light, but I don't know what else I can do to prove the link. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Colleen

Surely your link is pretty much proved by the death cert of Careless, as it has both names. Initially I thought maybe they were different families, but they quite clearly are not....... You are so lucky that Careless wasn't called Mary! Merry

Merry, Thanks for that, I hadnt got the information from 1901of Careless with Cook, I thought it rung a bell. Careless Withers is with a family of Cooks in 1871 and Cooks witnessed the marriage of William Withers and Mary Jane Jones in 1878. Having to much trouble with Brown to start on Jones. Many thanks for your help so far and am still open to suggestions, Colleen

Colleen, The Cook link is that Careless daughter Maria married Henry Cook. (They are all together on 1871). Sorry - looked all through Ancestry marriages too and couldnt find one for Careless plus a Mr Brown. Also checked IGI and John Withers c 9/5/24 was son of John Withers and Margaret Bowden m 25/12/20 - so no likely Brown links going backwards. The only thing that seems unusual is that when Careless married a Brown (if she did!) her adult son changed his name to Brown too. Elaine x.

Elaine, Have checked on ancestry and found Maria Brown married to Henry Cook about 1868. This means the Brown connection was there long before 1901. Why didn't they double barrel it, much easier. Thanks for the Withers/Bowden connection, more surnames to check out. Am grateful for your time, Colleen