Genealogy Chat

I'd be really grateful if any one can help me. i have a Thomas Carwardine in my tree. He was born about 1812 in Leominster. He married Mary Grifiths and had several children. I then believe Mary died and he subsequently married a lady called Esther, born about 1820 in Lilleshall, Shropshire. I believe they were married between 1843 and 1847 as the last child born to him and Mary was in 1843 and Esther and Thomas had their first child about 1847. I can find his marriage to Mary but cannot find his marriage to Esther anywhere. I'm depserate to find her maiden name. Can anyone help at all? I'd be really grateful Thanks Nicola

Where have you looked for the marriage, www.familysearch.org, Freebmd, Ancestry beta list? If you are really desperate, you can order the birth cert for their first child, which will have Esther's maiden name on it. Alternatively, you can find Esther's birthplace and rough year of birth from the census and trawl through the parish baptism registers looking for likely candidates, then move forwards seeing if you can eliminate them by marriage to other people. nell

June qtr 1850 Emily Carwardine Birmingham vol 16 page 313 June qtr 1852 Esther Carwardine Birmingham vol 6d page 10 June x

Nicola on the IGI these are the children born to Thomas Carwardine & Esther..are these yours? 1. SARAH CARDWARDINE - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 19 MAY 1861 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England 2. ESTHER CARWARDINE - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 27 MAR 1853 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England 3. ALFRED CARWARDINE - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 20 AUG 1848 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England 4. EMILY CARWARDINE - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: About 07 JUL 1850 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England 5. EMMA CARWARDINE - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 03 MAY 1857 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England Georgina.

This looks like the family in 1861... Alfred Carwardine abt 1849 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire Benjamin Carwardine abt 1847 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire Emily Carwardine abt 1850 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Esther Carwardine abt 1819 Lilleshall, Shropshire, England Wife Birmingham Warwickshire Esther Carwardine abt 1853 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Sarah Carwardine abt 1859 Denbighshire, Wales Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Carwardine abt 1812 Leominster, Herefordshire, England Head Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Carwardine abt 1840 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire William Carwardine abt 1843 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire Georgina.

Hi Georgina Thanks for your post. That is definitely my ancesters. Can you give me any tips on finding Esthers maiden name? I expect the only way is to obtain the birth certificate of one of the children, but at the moment there's a delay on certificates I believe, I've been waiting 3 weeks for a marriage certificate so far!!!! Nicola

Nicola I dont know if this helps or I maybe grasping at straws but the only Esther showing on the 1851 census born in 1819 lillishall is this one... Esther Jarvis abt 1819 Lilleshall, Shropshire, England Wife Shrewsbury St Chad Shropshire William Jarvis abt 1803 Stanton Wick, Somerset, England Head Shrewsbury St Chad Shropshire Source information: HO107/1992 Registration district: Shrewsbury Sub-registration district: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 1c Folio: 520 Page: 7 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 34 GSU Number: 87393 There is a death for a William Jarvis in 1856... Deaths Mar 1856 Jarvis William Shrewsbury 6a 432 I still cant find a marriage for Esther Jarvis that fits. Georgina.

HI Georgina I can certainly give that a go. I can't find a marriage between a Thomas Carwardine and an Esther anywhere. Perhaps they got married later than I thought, or perhaps they disn't get married at all. It's all a bit confusing. Thanks a lot for your help. please let me know if come up with anything else. Nicola x

Hi It may be nothing but: noted Thomas & Esther's daughter Sarah is spelled CARDWARDINE on the IGI, Christened in Birmingham in May 1861. However, on the 1861 Census it says she alone of all the children, was *born* in Denbighshire Wales, and born abt 1859 so she appears to have been christened 'back home' in Birmingham (just after the Census) a couple of years after she was born. Here is a Thomas CARDWARDINE getting married in Wales later in 1859 - there is a bride missing. Could she be the elusive Esther? Marriages Dec 1859 Cardwardine Thomas Newport M 11a265 Dennis William Newport M 11a265 Edwards Jane Newport Mon 11a265 But there is Thomas CARWARDINE in Wales 1861 born abt 1838 in Monmouth so, perhaps not :-(( I don't have Ancestry sub so maybe someone else can dispel this idea.....!! cHEERS Anne

Hi Anne Thanks for your reply. I'll have a look into the information you've provided. I'm starting to think that perhaps they got married a lot later than I would've thought. i can't think of any other reason why they don't appear anywhere. Thanks again Nicola

Nicola after a long search I have found this family on the 1851 census badly mistranscribed and guess what Esther is down as Catherine.... Alfred Arwethire abt 1849 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire Benjamin Arwethire abt 1847 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire Catherine Arwethire abt 1819 Lilleshall, Shropshire, England Wife Birmingham Warwickshire Emily Arwethire abt 1850 Birmingham Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Emme Arwethire abt 1841 Birmingham Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Arwethire abt 1812 Lionewsler, Herefordshire, England Head Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Arwethire abt 1840 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire William Arwethire abt 1844 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire Source information: HO107/2051 Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: Lady Wood ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Folio: 190 Page: 28 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 83 GSU Number: 87306-87307 Georgina.

Hi Georgina Well, it certainly looks like them doesn't it. Where do I go from here? DO you think that that suggests that they were definitely married by 1851???? Thank you so much for all your help. If I can attempt to return the favour, I'll certainly give it a go. NIc x

Nicola what you will need to do is send for one of the childrens birth certificates that will give you Esther/Catherine's surname. You could also post a request for a look-up on the 1841 census in Birmingham to see who Thomas is living with. Good luck in your search. Georgina.