Genealogy Chat

Then look at Henry & Salome's daughters in an earlier census:

1861 England Census
Name: Salome Cleaver
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Henry
Gender: Female
Where born: Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Tetbury
Ecclesiastical parish: Gloucester
Town: Tetbury
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Tetbury
Sub-registration district: Tetbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 5f
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 94
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Cleaver 35
Salome Cleaver 36
Emma Cleaver 10
Phoebe Cleaver 9
Hannah Cleaver 7 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Samuel Cleaver 6
Salome Cleaver 4
Amelia Cleaver 2

It's also important to look around at the neighbours on censuses too. Look who's living next door in 1881.

1881 England Census
Name: Henry Cleaver
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Salome
Gender: Male
Where born: Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Tetbury
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Harper St
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Brewer's Lab
Registration district: Tetbury
Sub-registration district: Tetbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Cleaver 52
Salome Cleaver 52
Samuel Cleaver 24
Frederick Cleaver 15
Richard Cleaver 9
Kate Benjamin 7 - granddaughter
Georgeina Benjamin 5 - granddaughter

NinjaLady's explained how clicking on the page # brings up the 4 names Janet displayed.


One can also click on the "Chippenham" in her post:

Births Sep 1887 (>99%)
RUSSELL Sarah Ann Chippenham 5a 68

and then on the more info "here" link to see the villages, etc (e.g., Corsham) that are included in Chippenham Registration District.

William & Hannah's children in 1891:

Henry G Russell 12
Frank Russell 11
Percy Russell 10
Albert Russell 8
Lenora Russell 6
Jane Russell 5
Sarah A Russell 3
James Russell 2
Fanny A Russell 9/12

In 1901 they are mistranscribed as Ruddell & now have -
Mary Ruddell 6, born Boxwell, Glos.

Hi Katie

If you look at the 1891 census posted below you will see that there are 8 other children on that census so Sarah came from quite a large family.

And possibly Mary Ann from the 1881 census posted by Ozibird is a sibling too, plus the intriguing Emma Cleaver.

I've got an Albert (brother of Sarah Ann) born around 1883 too?

Emma intrigues me too, NinjaLady. I can't find her again but did find her birth, Emma Daw Cleaver.

Ozi.

Katie

Looks like Sarah wasn't their first born - that was Henry G Russell. The Emma D Cleaver entry looks interesting - was she the offspring of William and Hannah or was she born out of wedlock before William and Hannah married and has a different father? Intriguing!!!

Or was one of William's sisters married to one of Hannah's brothers giving Emma the Cleaver surname?

Ooh, so many interesting leads to follow.

EDIT - can't see any other marriages for a male Cleaver marrying a female Russell.

Then you need to check all the censuses as you can come up with some confirmation that you might be on the right track, like this.

Here is their eldest from 1891-

1881 England Census about Henry G. Russell
Name: Henry G. Russell
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Grandson
Father's Name: Thomas
Gender: Male
Where born: Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Tetbury
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Harper St
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Tetbury
Sub-registration district: Tetbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Russell 58
Jane Russell 57
George R. Russell 28
Jane Russell 30
Thomas Russell 25
Emma D. Cleaver 6 - granddaughter; Tetbury
Henry G. Russell 3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mary A.W. Russell 3

To find this information Katie you could use the following sources

www.freembd.org.uk

To find a birth

Click on search on the left hand side of the home page and then select births. Put in the surname and christian name and a year span a few years before and after you think they were born and a county or registration district if you know it, if not then select all districts/counties.

Once I had the birth for Sarah I did a quick check to see if i could find her on the next census after her birth. This brought up the 1891 and showed the oldest child was 12.

To find the marriage go back to freebmd and select marriages

Type in Russell, William and then just Hannah in the christian name box for the spouse. Again, go a few years before the birth of the oldest child and a couple of years after. This will bring up any marriages with William Russell and a Hannah on the page. Click on the number on the right hand side of the entry. If you're lucky there is only one Hannah listed and you have the maiden name of your bride. If you're really unlucky both brides will have the same christian name and you're back to square one!!

If this happens you can try using the Family Search website

http://www.familysearch.org

to see if you can find anything on there. I'll nudge the thread called "An IGI tutorial for you - it's well worth playing with this as there are lots of pre 1837 records on there.

Wow - that's fantastic, thank you. Tetbury is spot on and I'd seen te 1891 cenus.

So, Janet just to get this clear in my head is that you searched the marriage of William Russell. What did you use to come up with the results that he married Hannah Cleaver?

I believe their first born who was Sarah Ann was born in 1887 so this would tie in nicely. I believe Hannah was born around 1855.

Thanks again - I am absolutely loving putting this all together x

This is the family in 1891

1891 England Census
about Sarah A Russell
Name: Sarah A Russell
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Wm
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Female
Where born: Corsham, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Rodmarton
Ecclesiastical parish: Rodmarton
Town: Rodmarton
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Cirencester
Sub-registration district: Cirencester
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Wm Russell 34
Hannah Russell 36
Henry G Russell 12
Frank Russell 11
Percy Russell 10
Albert Russell 8
Lenora Russell 6
Jane Russell 5
Sarah A Russell 3
James Russell 2
Fanny A Russell 9/12



So, the marriage found by Janet fits in with the time frame.

On the 1891 census both William and Hannah were stated as being born in Tetbury, which also fits in with the marriage registration.

Right.
It is very easy to go down the wrong track unless you get certificates from time-to-time., as I am sure you know! The only way to be 100% sure of Sarah's mother is to find her birth cert, or that of one of Sarah's siblings if they have a more distinctive name. Is your info from census reports? I am wondering why you are a little unsure that her mother is Hannah.
Do you have a birth year for Sarah?

There is one marriage I can find of a William Russell possibly to a Hannah in Wiltshire:

Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%)
Cleaver Hannah Tetbury 6a 574
Cook Ellen Isabella Tetbury 6a 574
Hewett Thomas Edward Tetbury 6a 574
RUSSELL William Tetbury 6a 574

Jan

Is this the correct birth registration for her?

Births Sep 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RUSSELL Sarah Ann Chippenham 5a 68

Hello,

Apologies - this is day 3 into my family tree composition so I am new and naive! I have traced back my Grandfather's mother's family. My Great Grandmother is Sarah Ann Russell born in Corsham, Wilts. Her parents are William and Hannah (I believe!)

BUT how do I find Hannah's maiden name? The marriage records back in the 1880s don't show who the name of who William Russell married, nor is the mother's maiden name included on the Sarah Ann's birth record. So as experts, how do you find out this info? Once again, sorry if the answer is glaringly obvious, I've just hit a brick wall and can't see a way round it!

Thanks in advance,
Kate x