Genealogy Chat

Thanks Janey,

I was assured by him that as Samuel had been in prison that records were difficult to locate. I had questioned some of the things I had found but he insisted they weren't the family in question. Probably he just couldn't be bothered doing the work.

I will do exactly what you have suggested and go back and see what I get from him, bit frustrating being so far away and not being able to pop in and check registrars etc myself.

Thanks once again

Rachelle

Copy the *very easily findable* records to the researcher and demand your money back.

Surely those people belong to some sort of professional organization. Report him/her.

We have this problem with "immigration consultants". Lawyers (I used to be an immigration lawyer) are subject to professional discipline by the Law Society, but anybody's dog can hang up a shingle and call themself an "immigration consultant", and screw people out of money and give false advice and act totally unethically ... and nobody can do a thing.

Seriously. That was a matter of searching the marriages index at Ancestry for Gwennap marriages 1926 +/- 10 years, and comparing the results to the names in the 1911 census. And then when I searched at FreeBMD for Samuel Gwennap, and then Grace Gwennap, any event after 1911, there were the birth of baby Samuel and the birth and death of baby Grace. I hadn't specifically looked for more Gwennap-Williams births, so then I did, and then any deaths for those births. As you see, it took a little over a half hour from start in the 1901 to finish.

Thanks Janey for the extra information! Jacqueline sent me some things she had found and you found some stuff that she did not have.

I had the family on the 1911 census but did not know what happened to Samuel after he was in prison and thr researcher I paid said that there were no records etc that he could track but that all appears to be a load of rubbish!

I guess it means Samuel must have come out of prison soon after the 1911 census and I guess I will order the birth certificates to ensure that they belong to himself and Grace as there were a few Gwennaps around the area at the same time.

Thank you so much once again! If I can just work out when Samuel and Grace died I'll be satisified !

Cheers

Rachelle

More children to Grace and Samuel after 1911, it seems.


Births Sep 1911
Gwennap James Williams Penzance 5c 417
Gwennap Richard Williams Penzance 5c 417

apparently twins -- sadly:

Deaths Sep 1911
Gwennap James 0 Penzance 5c 330
Gwennap Richard 0 Penzance 5c 330


Births Dec 1912
Gwennap Samuel Williams Penzance 5c 364

Name: Samuel Gwennap
Spouse Surname: Nicholls
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1937
Registration district: Penzance
Registration county (inferred): Cornwall
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 573


Births Jun 1914
GWENNAP Grace Williams Penzance 5c 376

Deaths Jun 1915
Gwennap Grace 1 Penzance 5c 318


Births Sep 1916
Gwennap Harry B Williams Penzance 5c 346
Gwennap Mary K Williams Penzance 5c 346

twins again -- and sadly, again:

Deaths Sep 1916
Gwennap Mary K 0 Penzance 5c 255
Deaths Mar 1917
Gwennap Harry B 0 Penzance 5c 389

I suppose Jacqueline may have sent you these already, but wtf.


Name: Violet M Gwennap
Spouse Surname: Richards
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1920
Registration district: Penzance
Registration county (inferred): Cornwall
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 603

Name: John J Gwennap
Spouse Surname: Gendall
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1928
Registration district: Penzance
Registration county (inferred): Cornwall
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 444


Name: Cecil M Gwennap
Spouse Surname: Thomas
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1928
Registration district: Penzance
Registration county (inferred): Cornwall
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 513


Name: Queenie P Gwennap
Spouse Surname: Pilkerton
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1930
Registration district: Penzance
Registration county (inferred): Cornwall
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 435


Name: Cecil M Gwennap
Spouse Surname: Palfrey
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1932
Registration district: Penzance
Registration county (inferred): Cornwall
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 428


Lots of births to look for.

This seems not to have been transcribed at FreeBMD, but it's at Ancestry.

Name: Evelyn E Gwennap
Spouse: Philip J Gilbert
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1916
Registration district: Penzance
Registration county (inferred): Cornwall
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 397


matches

Births Jun 1897
Gwennap Eveline Elizabeth Penzance 5c 222


Ah.

Marriages Mar 1916
Gilbert Philip J Gwennap Penzance 5c 397
> Gwenn_p Evelyn E Gilbert Penzance 5c 397

So I saw your post in Jacqueline's lookup thread.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1167183&px=2


I found them both on the 1911 Census, Samuel was in prison at Bodmin and Grace (38) was residing at Kerrow Common, Newbridge with teh following:

Evelyn (14) Stepdaughter (From Samuel's first marriage to an Elizabeth)
Violet (12) Stepdaughter (From Samuel's first marriage to an Elizabeth)
Arthur (7) Son
John (5) Son
Cecil (4)
and Queenie (3) Daughter.

Evelyn, Violet and John were all born in Paul, Cornwall, Grace was born in St Just in penwith and Cecil and Queenie were born in St Buryan.


?

Are you sure about this previous marriage? -- Ah, I see! Samuel and Grace had just married, MarQ 1901:


Samuel Gwennap 27 - born: St Buryan, Cornwall, England
Grace Gwennap 24
Eveline Gwennap 4

Civil parish: Paul
Town: Kerris
County/Island: Cornwall


Ann Gwennap 54
Arthur Gwennap 19
Violet Gwennap 3 - granddaughter
William Remphrey 66

Civil parish: Paul
Town: Sheffield
County/Island: Cornwall

Bodmin jail housed both civil and naval prisoners - it closed in 1927 but is now run as a tourist attraction. The jail itself might be able to point you in the right direction:

Bodmin Jail
Berrycoombe Road
Bodmin
Cornwall
PL31 2NR

T: 01208 76292

Gwennap is a fairly common name in Cornwall especially in the west of the county - so might be worth popping a letter in one of the local newspapers (local weeklies are widely read in Cornwall) - your best bets in this case are:

Cornish Guardian
Cornishman
West Briton

(should be able to get the addresses by Googling)

Thanks Netty!

Rachelle, it might be worth your while contacting the Cornwall Records Office. They may be of some help to you.


Available at CRO (catalogue QS)

calendars of prisoners, indictments and registers of convictions, 1865-1971 (QS 7-9)

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14426

Contact details:
Cornwall Record Office,
Old County Hall, Truro, Cornwall,
United Kingdom, TR1 3AY.

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 01872 323127

Thanks Mrs Grumpy,

As per my original post the census states that he is a farm labourer and it is a unique number, not the same as other people who have farm labourer listed as their occupation.

The prison closed in 1927 and I think it is a tourist attraction now. I can't find on the internet what happened to the prisoners. where they were transferred etc.

I'm not sure how long he had been in prison at the time of teh census so I'm not sure where he was living, I'll try to think of something!

Thanks for your help.

The number added by the enumerator is some sort of occupational code. It will either match his occupation or the fact that he's a prisoner. Is it the same as everyone else on the page? Does the census show his occupation?

You could always write to the nearest main library to the prison to see if they can help. Or, if the prison still exists, they may have records anyway.

Jill

Thanks Quinsgran unfortunately I live in another country so that option would not be accessible to me.

Try the library in the area he was living for newspaper articles to see if he is mentioned

Does anyone know if you can find the crime a person had been charged with if they were in a prison on the 1901 English Census?

I have a Samuel Gwennap age 37, farm labourer born in St Buryan, Cornwall and married and at the time of the 1911 English Census was an inmate of HM Civil Prison Bodmin.

I know Samuel was married to a Grace and had a number of children, but I have not been able to find anything about why he was in jail nor how long for. The census does not reflect an inmate number but has a number of 140 circled in a different coloured ink next to his occupation . The numbers on the page do not run consectutively so I am not sure what they refer to, if anything.

The 1911 English Census shows the family consisting of Grace (38) Head, married for 11 years. 7 children born alive, six children still living and one deceased. Grace is born in St Just in Penwith, Cornwall. Evelyn (14) Step daughter born in Paul, Violet (12) Step daughter born in Paul, Cornwall. Arthur (7) Son born St Just in Penwith, Cornwall. John (5) born in Paul, Cornwall. Cecil (4) born in St Buryan, Cornwall and Queenie (3) born in St Buryan, Cornwall.

Any help or ideas would be appreciated!

Regards

Rachelle