Genealogy Chat

Just to throw a spanner in the works though, there is this death which seems to tie in with a Frank Young born c1853!!:

Deaths Jun 1906
Young Frank 53 Christchurch 2b 407

OOH - Maybe the plot now thickens - just gone searching and found a 1881 Sthhants census entry for Frank Young who is shown as Cousin to a William Penfold (head) and a 1871 Sthhants entry for an Emily Young who is shown as Niece to a William Penfold - hmm more knots to this than there appears!!

Okay will give that certificate a whirl Sylvia and see what comes up. I wasn't sure if I could overlook that difference in DOB - ie how reliable the census dates were. Thanks everyone for making sense of it for me - I've looked and looked and kept seeing the Emily listing but couldn't get the children sorted out!

I followed the Frank Young b 1864 because it seems that it is an either/or situation.

Either you have Frank b ca 1853 with wife Elizabeth in 1901 OR you have Frank b.ca 1864 with or without wife Emily in 1871/188/1891


It is suspicious that Frank b.ca 1864, Salisbury, milkman in 1891, disappears when Frank b. ca 1853, Salisbury, milkman appears in 1901.


Rose in 1891 would also seem to be the Katey in 1901 ............ I would be sorely tempted to get that birth certificate.



sylvia

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the 1901 census age if I were you. Ages on census are notoriously inaccurate and yes, it's not unheard of for ages to be 10 years out or more. The data in the other censuses listed above seem quite consistent so I am fairly sure that Sylvia is right - i.e your Frank was born c1864 and was "married" twice - first to Emily (born c1863 Salisbury) and then to Elizabeth Park (born 1864 in Wareham). Either that or there were two Frank Youngs from Salisbury living in Bournemouth who were milkmen! That's possible, but it's more likely that your Frank in the 1901 is the same person as the one on the 1891 above.

I can't find either of his marriages on FreeBMD so quite possibly he was never formally married (you suggested that might be the case in your initial message). In order to find Emily's maiden name you could get the bc for Rose Kate Young in 1890. If Frank never formally married though it will be difficult to prove which is his birth, especially with such a common name.

Richard

But 1864 is 10 years out on the birthdate. I have tried to track every Frank Young that appears on ancestry through each census and cannot match the 1864 ones to my Frank. I am just hoping for a fathers name on a marriage cert to lead me to the pre-marriage Frank.

Yes, Sylvia that is the correct family in 1901 - Reginald was my maternal grandfather. I ordered the birth certificate for Charles as I couldn't be certain which of the Beatrice/Kates was the right one. My mother's family notebook which contains notes from her questioning of my grandmother gives the wife as Elizabeth Park and I also had this information from another source who was related to the Parks.

I did order a birth certificate for one of the Beatrices that appears on the BMD but not the right one.



Claire

Frank in 1871?

Name: Frank Young
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Fisherton, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Fisherton Anger
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Registration district: Alderbury
Sub registration district: Britford
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 32
Charles Young 13
Edward Young 9
Emma Young 40
Frank Young 7
Harry Young 11
John Young 37
John Young 5
William Young 1

maybe Frank in 1881?:

Name: Frank Young
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Cousin
Gender: Male
Where born: Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Southampton St Mary
County/Island: Hampshire
Street address: 40 Bellevue St
Occupation: Errand Boy
Registration district: Southampton
Sub registration district: 1B
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Janet E. Penfold 26
Julia E. Penfold
Samuel F. Penfold 2
William C. Penfold 26
Edward J. Young 19
Frank Young 17
John Young 15


... and maybe Elizabeth's birth:

Births Dec 1864
PARK Elizabeth Wareham 5a 281

??????????????

I started looking for the children, Beatrice and William, on the 1891 Census


I have found a Frank Young on the 1891, with wife Emily, son William (b. ca 1888) and daughter Rose (b.ca 1890). Franks' birth year is 1864, but born in Salisbury.


1891 Census

Name: Frank Young
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: Salisbury, Wiltshire, England

Civil Parish: Holdenhurst
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Bournemouth
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Registration district: Christchurch
Sub registration district: Christchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 21b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Parsons 23 Lodger
Emily Young 28 b.ca 1863, Salisbury, Wiltshire
Frank Young 27 Dairyman (delivers Milk)
Rose Young 2 b.ca 1889, Bournemoth
William Young 5 b.ca 1886, Bournemouth

Address:- 2 Fern Villas



I cannot find a Frank/Emily on the 1901 or a Frank/Elizabeth on the 1891



I wonder if this is Rose (on the 1891) vs Katey (on the 1901)????

Births Mar 1890 (>99%)

Young Rose Kate Christchurch 2b 649





I'm wondering if Frank was indeed married twice .............. which birth certificate did you obtain???

It might be instructive to obtain the one for either Beatrice, William or Rose, and see if the mother is indeed Elizabeth or Emily.



sylvia

for reference purposes


Is this your family on the 1901????


1901 Census

Name: Frank Young
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Salisbury, Wiltshire, England

Civil Parish: Bournemouth
Ecclesiastical parish: Bournemouth St Augustine
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Registration district: Christchurch
Sub registration district: Bournemouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 228
Household Members: Name Age
Beatrice Young 14 b.ca 1887, Bournemouth
Charles Young 7
Elizabeth Young 36
Frank Young 48 Dairyman
George Young 9
Katey Young 11
Reginald Young 2
Walter Young 4
William Young 13 b.ca 1888, Bournemouth

Address:- 201 Stewart Road



sylvia

Thanks:

From the 1901 Census:
Frank Young born abt 1853 Salisbury Wilts
Elizabeth Park(s) born about 1864 Trigon Hill Wareham, Dorset. (got her maiden name from one of the children's birth certificates and found her on earlier censuses)

1901 Census has first child born in Bournemouth in abt. 1887.

Cannot locate the family on the 1891 Census.

Frank's occupation - agricultural labour/dairyman.

Did they marry in Salisbury, Wareham or Bournemouth? I have formal family portraits of them taken in Bournemouth where they look about the right age. This could have been a second marriage for Frank given the age differences???

Without the marriage cert I have no hope of pinning down which of the several 1853 FrankYoungs of Salisbury he was!

A million thanks for any help.

Claire

Put their names up on here, and any other information you have, and see if anyone can find them



sylvia

Thanks for that, I think it will just have to be a long trawl through the marriage indexes then!! Haven't been able to locate a reference on any of the online indices and really need this certificate to get back the next step.

Mediums appeared all over the US and in 1852 Spiritualism was transported to England. Spiritualist churches and home circles began appearing in Britain in 1865

If it was a legal marriage then the GRO should have a copy of the registration, no matter where the marriage was held. If it wasn't a legally recognised marriage then you are unlikely to find any record of it I would think.

Richard

I am having diffuclty locating a registration of a marriage around the 1880's and understand the bride was a spiritualist. Would have been either Wiltshire or Hampshire. Is that something that might give me a hint as to where they might have married? Did Spiritualists use different churches for example? Or where the registration may be? Have googled for info to no avail! Any hints appreciated.