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You're welcome!

Fortunately that practice (the Mrs John Smiths on the voters' lists) ended by 1950, from viewing the lists, but that is no help in tracing John and his nameless wife after the entry where they are in Jessie's household, for instance ...

I hope the Ancestry contacts turn up something for you!

JoonieCloonie
Did not realize that you had replied on 19th September. Didn't know it had gone over to page 2 with the messages.

Thanks for your advice on Ancestry. I am hopeful that some of the folks who have info on Alexander Mackie will know what happened to the family. Sometimes it takes years but then you can hit pay dirt.

I had no idea that there were Canadian Voters Lists. Pity that the wives do not have their own christian names listed as you say.

I have been very impressed by all the help I have received with my query. Thanks to everyone who helped.

for Ancestry - you can take out a free 14-day trial subscription (just remember to cancel in time not to get charged) ... and send messages to all the tree owners you want to contact and include your actual email address

once you have registered there you will also get notice of freebies Ancestry offers

that's why it's also worth just registering a free account (not a trial account) at each of Ancestry's portals, i.e. .co.uk, .com, .ca, .com.au (use different names and email addresses) ... and then you will get notices of free offers at each of them :-)

it is definitely frustrating when there is no access to the links that would get one to the present day, like what John Mackie's wife's name was and whom the other children married ...

JoonieCloonie

I have been trawling through cemetery listings to no avail as well.

I had a thought that Jessie may even have remarried as she would only have been about 48 or so if she was widowed by 1945.

On Ancestry there are quite a few trees with Alexander Sharpe Mackie on them. Perhaps it is time for me to take out a subscription and try and track him down. That way I may just find out what happened to Jessie.

I know you spent ages searching for the information you sent. I have been on the computer every spare moment this week. It is frustrating not being able to get any further down the road.

Thanks again for all your help.

Coral

btw although as mgnv says deaths are indexed after 70 years, which means the deaths of the two husbands before 1945 would be available, Ancestry has only to 1938, so presumably they died in that interval

'The 1949 list was even better. Mrs Alex Mackie is obviously Jessie. Her children would be Alex the mechanic, William Mackie, driver & John Mackie, operator. Mrs John Mackie would be the wife of John.'

That's it I think Coral - so those are the names of the three sons. Plus daughter Dorothy from the 1921 and perhaps Pearl, and possibly others.

Since Margaret Cowan wasn't yet married in 1921 it makes sense that Pearl was Jessie's daughter ... possibly the error occurred on the later voter's list.

no cemetery/obituary site seems to turn up any info on any of the people

(I truly did spend a fair bit of time looking!!)

mgnv

Nice to have someone who knows how to read the records. I am use to the Australian records which are more specific in stating where the troops went.

When I said going overseas I really meant to which area in France. Didn't count the Halifax to England as being overseas but of course it was.

Thanks once again.

Service record
P 18 says he transferred from 198 (depot) bn to 20 bn on 1/3/18
p 18 Arrived in England 7/4/18 Metagama
[Went to France]
p 18 got GC Badge "in field" i.e., France & Flanders
p 18 Arrived back in England 5/4/19 (it says 5/4/18 - an obvious typo)
p 18 transferred to O wing 6/4/19
p 18 in two places at once as only left 20 bn 13/5/19
[Caronia left Liverpool 14/5/19 arr Halifax 22/5/19
http://data2.archives.ca/e/e244/e006086174.jpg ]

Card on p29 - 1st line says:
From Halifax per SS Metagama 25/3/17
[p 18 says he arrived in Engl
http://www.greatships.net/metagama.html

Card on p 33 says he entered theatre of war "France" on 1/3/18
As we've seen the date isn't correct - his departure for England was postponed a couple of times per p 18.
Maybe there was bother providing troopships or escorts.

He certainly was in France as p 18 shows when he returned to England.

It's hard to know exactly when he went - I had a brief look at the 20th bn's war diaries for April 1918.
They show the arrival of 19 ORs on 12/4/18 (i.e., Other Ranks) and 20 on the 14th.

In April 1918, the 20th bn was in the Neuville-Vitasse area abt 7km SE of Arras.
http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A4013/-/collection
Neuville-Vitasse is on Sheet 51b.N.19


==========

It's hard to imagine how he got from Halifax to England without going overseas.

JoonieCloonie

My apologies for the delay in replying to all your great information.....and it was great!

Was busy checking out the war record of William Collett again. Was also looking for a Pearl Collett who I though might be a niece of William's.

Re the Canadian voters' list, it was probably the best lead so far. The 1945 one with both Margaret and Jessie as widows and with Pearl Collett was a puzzle. Pearl was listed as a daughter of Alex & Jessie on the 1921 Census. I re-checked. Could have been a mistake by the person doing the census as the ages were wrong for the adults.

The 1949 list was even better. Mrs Alex Mackie is obviously Jessie. Her children would be Alex the mechanic, William Mackie, driver & John Mackie, operator. Mrs John Mackie would be the wife of John.

John Mackie would have been the Jackie Mackie on the 1921 Census age 2 years old.

You have given me a good few leads on these families and it is appreciated, even if it has taken me a couple of days to get back to you.

Thanks again!

seriously Coral, all the time I spent finding your people on voters' lists and no response at all?

:-(

mgnv

Many thanks for your reference to the 'Veterans Death Cards: First World War'. Was really impressed by the information it contained on William's death.

Whilst I have poured over his war record there is no mention of his going overseas. On 3 June 1918, he was awarded the G.C. Medal and the place stated as Field (I presumed this was France). I think he may have been in France from 8 March 1918 until he returned to England on 5 April 1919. Possibly earlier but the record was hard to decipher.

Many thanks!

this should help a little

1949 Canadian voters' list from Ancestry

Name: Mrs Margaret Collett
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Widow
Year: 1949
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Electoral District: Spadina
at 403 Dupont St, Toronto

in same household

Alex Mackie, mechanic
Mrs Alex Mackie (this would be Jessie)
William Mackie, driver
John Mackie, operator
Mrs John Mackie

so William and John are sons of Jessie Cowan Mackie


it's just very fortunate that Margaret was with Jessie's family that year since with women identified only as 'mrs husband's name' it would otherwise be impossible to identify which Alex and Mrs Mackie they were

I am not seeing a couple with those names in other years where the Alex is a mechanic


now I have confused myself ... searching those lists can be very confusing

1945 at the same address in Spadina district in Toronto

Mrs M Collette, widow
Mrs A Mackie >> widow
Miss Pearl Collett, stenographer

wasn't Pearl the daughter of Jessie Mackie?


in any event, Margaret's husband died before 1945

but the Alex Mackie in the 1949 list must be a son of Jessie, if she was a widow in 1945?

it would seem that Pearl was of voting age (21) in 1945, and William and John (and Alex?) came of voting age by 1949

... or ... they were not living at home at the time of the 1945 election, possibly in the military

20th battalion (nominally abt 1200 men, but more like 800 by 1918) was one of 4 infantry bns in the 4th Brigade, one of 3 infantry bdes in the 2nd Can Division, one of 4 divs (by 1918) in the Canadian Corps.

Technically, it's not part of his service record, but it states he did die in Toronto 9/1/1942
Title: Veterans Death Cards: First World War
Mikan Number: 46114
Microform: clifford_alfred
Page 850 of 1318
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/006003/dc-fww/clifford_alfred/jpg/clifford_alfred_0850.jpg

You can search the Canadian war diaries for the 20th bn Mar/1918 onwards via:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/Pages/war-diaries.aspx

Author: Nicholson, G.W.L
Official History of the Canadian Army in the First World War: Candian Expeditionary Force, 1914-1919
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/docs/CEF_e.pdf

Wm's return:
Ship: CARONIA
Shipping Line: Cunard Steamship Co. Ltd.
Port of Departure:Liverpool, England
Date of Departure:1919-05-14
Port of Arrival:Halifax, Nova Scotia New York
Date of Arrival:1919-05-22 1919-05
Year: 1919
Microfilm Reel Number: T-14795
Reference: RG 76
Item Number: 13431
http://data2.archives.ca/e/e244/e006086191.jpg
[not a good quality image - maybe Ancestry is better - 22nd name on left - last 3 cols read: Soldier; Relig=C.E.; destination=Toronto, Ont.]

Incidently, I don't think Wm was injured.
If he were, I'ld expect his service record to state he was SOS (struck off strength) of 20th bn, then TOS (taken on strength) for some medical unit.
I looked at one soldier who was SOS, then TOS a whole chain of medical units - Field Ambulance Coy, Casualty Clearing Station, then a chain of 4 hospitals, before being TOS of a replacements bn. He would have been sent as a replacement to his original Bn (this was the Canadian Army, not the British), but the war ended first.

MarieCeleste

I do have his full record and spent a good bit of time reading it. When he nominated his mother on his soldier's will on 16 October 1916 she was already dead. She died 21 December 1914.

Must have been terrible going to war and finding out when he returned to England, probably injured, that his mum had passed away.

Coral, do you have William's full service record or just the two page attestation paper?

His full service records are on this link:

http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B1867-S010

(it's very slow to load)

It's especially sad that he also made out his soldier's will in his mother's favour but it seems that by 1918 he'd found out about her death as next of kin is changed to his father.

Chris Ho
Many thanks for the information on the Collett family.

I have William's Canadian WW1 Army Record and found it sad that he gave his mother as his next of kin when he enlisted on 9 May 1916. On the church website it states she died on 21 Dec 1914.

Have contacted some Genes members. So far no new information found on Margaret and Jessie but it is great to get some replies. Thanks so much!

Births Jun 1883 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
COLLETT William Robert Wokingham 2c 408


Marriages Dec 1874 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Collett John Plymouth 5b 451
Dingle Thirza Harvey Plymouth 5b 451

(above for William, his Parents 1911, Takeley, Essex. 1891 with William, as below)

1891 (Find My Past)
John Collett Head Married Male 39 1852 Coach Man Beckley, Oxfordshire, England
T H Collett Wife Married Female 40 1851 - Lezant, Cornwall, England
Rosa A H Collett Daughter Single Female 16 1875 - Stanton St John, Oxfordshire, England
Jno H Collett Son - Male 12 1879 Scholar Wargrave, Berkshire, England
Fred G Collett Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Wargrave, Berkshire, England
Wm R Collett Son - Male 7 1884 Scholar Wargrave, Berkshire, England
Ethel M Collett Daughter - Female 4 1887 - Breconshire, Wales
Florance M Collett Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Breconshire, Wales
House name Garth Lodge
Street Brickyard Terrace
Town Treflis
Parish Treflis
County Breconshire
Registration district Builth
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 4565
Folio 40
Page 1

(a google of john collett takeley, brings a few items!)


24 April 1909 - Essex Newsman - Chelmsford, Essex, England

At the Parish Church, Takeley, by the Rev. C. H. Kempthorne, Mr. Percy Staines, of Stansted, was married to Miss Ethel Mary Collett. of Mole-hill-green, Takeley
The happy couple are spending their honeymoon at Greenhithe, Kent. They will finally take up their abode in New Jersey, U.S.A.


Marriages Jun 1909 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
COLLETT Ethel Mary Dunmow 4a 1429
STAINES Percy William Dunmow 4a 1429

(and could be them on below)

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi

Staines, Ethel M
b. 1887 d. unknown Royal Palm South Cemetery
Saint Petersburg
Pinellas County
Florida, USA

Staines, Percy W
b. 1879 d. 1963 Royal Palm South Cemetery
Saint Petersburg
Pinellas County
Florida, USA

(as said earlier, always worth a check in 'Search All Member Trees' (top right of page, under 'Search')

Although d.certs of any date are a public record in Ont, there is no index published for 70 y.

Shirley,
It has been a while since I used Genes. Forgot all about looking on other folks trees. Have found a few which just might be mine. Fingers crossed. Thank you!

MarieCeleste
I had typed in the wrong date for Jessie and Alexanders marriage. Have edited in now.

I don't have Ancestry at the moment but will make a note of Jessie died Ontario in 1984 and being widowed in 1958. It might be the correct one.

On the 1921 Canadian Census Jackie had been transcribed as being 7 years old. When I looked at the Census I thought it looked more like a 2. It was pretty messy. I think they put him first on the Census because he was a boy.

Thanks for your help.

There's an unsourced tree on Ancestry stating Jessie died 1 Dec 1984 in Burlington, Ontario, having been widowed in 1958.

That tree has no parents or siblings for Jessie and also has added incorrect information for the son Jackie. They only have 3 children listed.

That tree owner also has incorrect 1901 census attached so I'd say they weren't a reliable source for contact.