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Thankyou everyone, with your help I do believe I have found Him

Kind regards

Sarah

hey super no i,m not would you recommend ancestry I have been thinking about it

Re William Baines " removed to Bedford gaol. The two men who now offered themselves as sureties were Thomas Baines, father ol the prisoner, and Kisby Cotching, both of Leighton. They were accepted and duly bound over.
29 June 1880 - Leighton Buzzard Observer and Linslade Gazette - Leighton Buzzard

http://www.gypsygenealogy.co.uk/showarticle.php?article_id=10

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=132544.0

(above from google search)

Chris :)

Sarah are you on Ancestry?

you are all fantastic...thankyou so much
:-)

Sarah

This may be the 'baby' Draper on 1911 aged 1 week named for uncle, born Northfleet ( Strood reg)

Births Jun 1911 (>99%)

Draper Levi Strood 2a 682

If this is them in 1911 with son George ( both Georges are Flower hawkers) then it says they have been married 25 years,


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
George Draper Head Married Male Flower 45 1866 Not Known

Ann Draper Wife Married Female - 47 1864 Not Known

George Draper Son Married Male Flower 25 1886 Not Known

Alice Draper Dau In Law Married Female - 25 1886 Not Known

George Draper Grd Son - Male - 2 1909 Higham Kent

Baley ( baby) Draper Grd Son - Male - 0 1911 Northfleet Kent

That was a great catch Chris :-D

There is a Kisby Draper charged with horse stealing in 1858 found not guily

16 January 1875 - Bucks Herald - Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England

LEIGHTON BUZZARD.
Trespassing in Search of Game. Jas. Barker and Kisby Draper, alias Cotching, two old offenders, were brought up in custody charged with trespassing on land at Heath


02 July 1864 - Bucks Herald - Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England

Cotching - Briggs
On the 26th ult, Leighton Buzzard, by the Rev. T. W. Richards, Kisby Cotching, of North-street, to Sarah Briggs, both of Leighton.


28 February 1874 - Bucks Herald - Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England

Assault
Kisby Cotching, a labourer, of Leighton, was charged by Ann Cotching with assaulting her on February 8th.

(and possibly more, using different keywords)

?

Marriages Jun 1864 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
Baines Ann Leighton B. 3b 680
Cotching Kisby Leighton B 3b 680


England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Kisby
Last name Cotching
Age 27
Marriage year 1864
Marriage date 26 Jun 1864
Marriage place Leighton Buzzard,Bedford,England
Spouse's first name(s) Ann
Spouse's last name Baines
Spouse's age 26
Spouse's birth year 1838
Spouse's birth date 1838
Spouse's father's first name(s) William
Place Leighton Buzzard

Chris :)

Baptism
County Kent
Place Hoo
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 944
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 13 Aug 1899
Forename Nelson
Sex M
FatherForename Ambrose
MotherForename Ann
FatherSurname DRAPER
MotherSurname
Abode S. Mary's
FatherOccupation Hawker


Baptism
County Kent
Place Hoo
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 969
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 29 Jul 1904
Forename Nelson
Sex M
FatherForename Elias
MotherForename Caroline
FatherSurname DRAPER
MotherSurname
Abode Mote Field
FatherOccupation Hawker
Notes Note "P.B." in margin


County Kent
Place Hoo
Church St Mary's
RegisterNumber 99
MarriageDate 11 Aug 1901
GroomForename Elias
GroomSurname DRAPER
GroomAge 24
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Hawker
GroomAbode St Mary's
BrideForename Caroline
BrideSurname SMITH
BrideAge 21
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation Hawker
BrideAbode St Mary's
GroomFatherForename Ambrose
GroomFatherSurname DRAPES
GroomFatherOccupation Hawker
BrideFatherForename Abraham (deceased)
BrideFatherSurname SMITH
BrideFatherOccupation Hawker
WitnessOneForename John
WitnessOneSurname TOPLEY
WitnessTwoForename Emeline
WitnessTwoSurname FULLER


(nothing much on below for Hoo, if above related anywhere)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

did you find a marriage for george and annie draper

the marriage i found its the only one with them names in uk


Marriages Mar 1929 (>99%)
Draper George Scotchings Leighton B. 3b 639

i do have a theory, ann the wife i believe is the daughter of kisby draper and ann baines if you look on the following cencuses you will see ann being the daughter and them changing thier mane to variants of cotchins e.g scothins etc

1861 census:
Although the first name is spelt slightly differently, and the surname is completely different, this must be the same person, since Kisby Cotching marries Ann Baines and all the children change their surname by 1871! "Breckhill" is presumably "Brick Hill", very close to the Beds border and near Woburn.

Kisbee Draper, 24, b. Breckhill, Bucks, Lodger Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Baines, 23, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper, Leighton Buzzard
Charles Baines, 2, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ann S Baines, 1, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper Daur, Leighton Buzzard

1871 census:
Note how Ann, Charles and Ann S Baines above are now all "Cotching". The age of Kisby must be a mistranscription, i.e. it should be 35, not 55. Birth place must be "Beds, Woburn Sands"

Kisby Cotching, 55, b. Bedcks, Woburn Lands, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotching, 33, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
Charles Cotching, 12, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotching, 10, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
Elizabeth Cotching, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
William Cotching, 6, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Maria Cotching, 4, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
John Cotching, 2, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard

1881 census:
A slight variation on the surname spelling.

Kisby Cotchin, 44, b. Woburn Sands, Beds, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotchin, 43, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
William Cotchin, 16, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Mary Cotchin, 14, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
John Cotchin, 12, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Darney Cotchin, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
Thomas Cotchin, 4, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ernest Cotchin, 3, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Sam Cotchin, 3 months, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard

1891 census:
Another variation on the surname spelling (and Kisby's age)

Kisby Scotchings, 60, (Place of birth not given), Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Scotchings, 53, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
Thomas Scotchings, 14, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ernest Scotchings, 13, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
William Scotchings, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
(Sam Cotching had died in 1882 q1)

1901 census:
Possibly a transcription error in the surname this time...

Kisby Colchin, 66, b. Woburn Sands, Bucks, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Colchin, 63, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard

Marriage registration from IGI:

Kisby Cotching & Ann Baines
26/06/1864, Leighton Buzzard, England
Husband age at marriage: 27
Wife age at marriage: 26
No father of groom/bride given


maybe the draper name come from anns side of the family, so was george the father a smithdo you think???? or was he genuinly a draper and if so where did he come from and who were his parents

I really do appreciate any help i can get with this x

I had thought of that, but they registered their births as there own children, thanks for the suggestion

could it be that the smith births were not george and annies children but took them in as their own

Thankyou Rose, Yes this appears to be the family, I believe i have found the wifes family line, but i cannot find George the father and I do not understand why George (son) and Levi are birth registered Draper and the rest of the children are birth registered smith,

many thanks for your help

Just for ref

George Draper Head Married Male 36 1865 Farm Labourer Not Known

Annie Draper Wife Married Female 38 1863 - Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, England

George Draper Son Single Male 15 1886 Farm Labourer Shorne, Kent, England

Levi Draper Son - Male 7 1894 - Hoo St Werburgh, Kent, England

Israel Draper Son - Male 5 1896 - Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, England

Ernest Draper Son - Male 4 1897 - Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, England

Nelly B Draper Daughter - Female 3 1898 - Hoo St Werburgh, Kent, England

If you look at the 1901 Census for Cooling St James, Hoo, Kent you will see

George and Annie Draper with their 5 children



I only found Levi registered as Draper, his father was registered as George Draper and his mother was registered as Ann Draper formerly Scotchings. Index for birth found levi draper born 1893 at hoo Levi had a daughter Norah

Israel was registered as Smith, his father was registered as George Smith and his mother Angelina Smith formerly Cutchings. Index found for birth isreal Smith born 1895 Leighton Buzzard

Ernest was also registered as Smith, his father was registered as George Smith and his mother Ann Selina Smith formerly Cotchin. Index for birth found for ernest smith 1897 in Leighton Buzzard

Finally, Nelly Betsy Smith, her father was registered as George Smith and her mother Ann Smith formerly Scotchin. Index for birth found 1896 nelly betsy smith 1898 hoo

George Draper ( possibly 1886) I have not yet found a birth registration, but I suspect the he will have been registered as Smith as well. So during the Census they said their surname was Draper yet when registering a birth they quoted Smith except for Levi. They must of known what they were doing. Found a marriage for George Draper to Alice Smith 1916 Hoo, need to check this out but it made me nellys brother.

Im trying to find out the smith coneection and why he registered his children smith and draper,was there two father. Im looking any details of his parents and where he come from....so confused, really need some help. I am the great grand daughter of nelly.

sarah