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mgnv

Thank you so much for all that info-the destination is listed as Canada so presumably that is where they all went on to from NY ,there are so many Surman/Sirman's in that area of Oxfordshire and several families emigrated

Here's some US census info - some of this duplicates earlier postings

Unlike the UK censuses, where most info is simply picked up from the forms enumerators dropped off earlier in the week, in the US (& Canada) the info is collected by enumerators questioning at the threshold (in rural US, the bulk of the enumerator's time is spent in travelling the route, not in the questioning).
It would seem that there's some misrecording (and possibly, some misstatements of fact) in the first census, since Martha is dead by now, and the 2 older kids had p.o.b.=England.

United States Census, 1870 > Ohio > Wayne > Canaan > Image 45 of 46
1870-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6GS-X97 [with image link]
H Suman M 55 England
Martha Suman F 50 England
Mary Suman F 19 Canada
Elizabeth Suman F 11 Canada
William Suman M 9 Canada
James Suman M 24 Canada
Household ID: 2 , Line Number: 8
GS Film number: 000552779 , Digital Folder Number: 004278478 , Image Number: 00096

United States Census, 1870 > Ohio > Wayne > Canaan > Image 37 of 46
1870-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6GS-PSF [with image link]
J M 30 England
Flora F 19 Ohio, United States
Charles M 2 Ohio
Household ID: 294 , Line Number: 21
GS Film number: 000552779 , Digital Folder Number: 004278478 , Image Number: 00088
[Image says name is Surman]

United States Census, 1870 > Ohio > Wayne > Canaan > Image 44 of 46
1870-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6GS-XMS [with image link]
G Suman M 24 England
Mary Suman F 22 Michigan
George Suman M 2 Ohio
Ellsworth Suman M 0 Ohio
Ann Young F 18 Ohio
Household ID: 354 , Line Number: 15
GS Film number: 000552779 , Digital Folder Number: 004278478 , Image Number: 00095

Burbank is almost on the Wayne Co line at the N edge of the county.
It's 1/2 m S of the junction of state 83 & I-71 at exit 204.
If I head S from Burbank on state 83 for 3m, then E on state 604 for 3m, I come to Canaan.










1880-MO https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6XW-FB9
District: 20 , Sheet Number and Letter: 49A ,
GS Film Number: 1254690 , Digital Folder Number: 004241891 , Image Number: 00315

1880-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ1R-JG1
District: 107 , Sheet Number and Letter: 544B ,
GS Film Number: 1255004 , Digital Folder Number: 004243512 , Image Number: 00152

1880-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M89T-29Y
District: 188 , Sheet Number and Letter: 283B ,
GS Film Number: 1255047 , Digital Folder Number: 004243654 , Image Number: 00135

1880-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ1R-K4S
District: 107 , Sheet Number and Letter: 565C ,
GS Film Number: 1255004 , Digital Folder Number: 004243512 , Image Number: 00193







1900-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MMC5-TD9 [with image link]
[It does say immig 1868, but also says 47 y in US]
1900-NE https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3BB-PX5 [with image link]
[Jos claims immig 1856; in US 43y]
1900-ID https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MM5L-H4S [with image link]
[Geo claims immig 1862; in US 38y]
1900-CO https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQMJ-ZBM [with image link]
1900-KY https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9H2-J2V [with image link]
[Wm claims immig 1872; in US 27y]
Maybe:
1900-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MMCT-4GY [with image link]




1910-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLJW-DKZ
Event Place: Whetstone, Crawford, Ohio, United States
District: 37 , Sheet Number and Letter: 11A
GS Film number: 1375176 , Digital Folder Number: 004449376 , Image Number: 00353

1910-ID https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLHF-MT5
Event Place: South Boise, Ada, Idaho, United States
District: 22 , Sheet Number and Letter: 13A , Household ID: 59
GS Film number: 1374234 , Digital Folder Number: 004327536 , Image Number: 00778

1910-NE https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLHM-HGR
Event Place: Barada, Richardson, Nebraska, United States
District: 163 , Sheet Number and Letter: 2A , Household ID: 35
GS Film number: 1374867 , Digital Folder Number: 004330842 , Image Number: 00046

1910-KY https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M2DB-PNZ
Event Place: Covington Ward 2, Kenton, Kentucky, United States
District: 89 , Sheet Number and Letter: 7A , Household ID: 127
GS Film number: 1374501 , Digital Folder Number: 004329949 , Image Number: 00240
Catalog:
Kentucky: Kenton (E.D. 80-124) County [NARA T624 roll 488] ... 1374501

1910-CO https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MK4X-8T3
Event Place: La Junta, Otero, Colorado, United States
District: 128 , Sheet Number and Letter: 15A , Household ID: 349
GS Film number: 1374136 , Digital Folder Number: 004327326 , Image Number: 00880



1920-CO https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXLW-BSS
Event Place: La Junta, Otero, Colorado, United States
District: 161 , Sheet Number and Letter: 1A , Household ID: 2 , Line Number: 4
GS Film number: 1820169 , Digital Folder Number: 004294439 , Image Number: 00129

1920-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDRS-9QY
Event Place: Claridon, Marion, Ohio, United States
District: 110 , Sheet Number and Letter: 1A , Household ID: 4 , Line Number: 12
GS Film number: 1821416 , Digital Folder Number: 004384785 , Image Number: 00662

1920-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDTH-STD
District: 204 , Sheet Number and Letter: 4B , Household ID: 114 , Line Number: 92
GS Film number: 1821382 , Digital Folder Number: 004384863 , Image Number: 00959

1920-ID https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDC6-4ZR
District: 20 , Sheet Number and Letter: 7A , Household ID: 165 , Line Number: 42
GS Film number: 1820287 , Digital Folder Number: 004300158 , Image Number: 00414

1920-NE https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCKB-7JY
District: 158 , Sheet Number and Letter: 6A , Household ID: 124 , Line Number: 38
GS Film number: 1821000 , Digital Folder Number: 004313293 , Image Number: 00651



1940-OH https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KWX6-4BD [with image link]






Magnify 4 clicks, then save image:
https://archive.org/stream/10thcensus0690unit#page/n314/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/10thcensus1004unit#page/n151/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/10thcensus1047unit#page/n133/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/10thcensus1004unit#page/n192/mode/1up plus next page
[Baby will be named Jennifer May]
https://archive.org/stream/13thcensus1910po1163unit#page/n352/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/13thcensus1910po221unit#page/n776/mode/1up plus following page
https://archive.org/stream/13thcensus1910po854unit#page/n46/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/13thcensus1910po488unit#page/n238/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/13thcensus1910po0123unit#page/n787/mode/1up plus following page
https://archive.org/stream/14thcensusofpopu169unit#page/n126/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/14thcensusofpopu1416unit#page/n659/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/14thcensusofpopu1382unit#page/n956/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/14thcensusofpopu287unit#page/n411/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/14thcensusofpopu1000unit#page/n648/mode/1up

Elizabeth - it would have helped if you'd posted the 1851 census [ref ho107/1727/89/4 - there are other Surman's on nearby pages].

Piece ho107/1727 covers:
Registration District: 157. HEADINGTON.
Registration Sub-District: 1 Wheatley ff.1-126
Registration Sub-District: 2 St Clement ff.127-303
Since we have folio 89, we're in the Wheatley bit which includes:
Parish: Horsepath.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
[The modern spelling is Horspath, e.g.: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/662003 ]

Here are some BMDs:

Marriages Sep 1839 (>99%)
KIMBER Martha Oxford 16 135
Surman Henry Oxford 16 135

Joseph's birth seems to be unregistered

Births Mar 1843 (>99%)
Surman Thomas Headington 16 73

Maybe:
Births Jun 1845 (>99%)
Surman James Headington 16 65

Births Jun 1848 (>99%)
Surman George Headington 16 71

Births Jun 1850 (>99%)
Surman Mary Ann Headington 16 79





findagrave says:
Martha Kimber Surman
Birth: Sep. 19, 1819 Headington
Death: 1863 Ohio, USA

Henry Surman
Birth: Jun. 13, 1818 Horspath
Death: Oct. 10, 1904 Galion Crawford County Ohio, USA

Joseph Surman
Birth: Mar. 7, 1840 Horspath
Death: Sep. 28, 1925 Shubert Richardson County Nebraska, USA

George W Surman
Birth: Apr. 13, 1848
Death: Oct. 9, 1943 Boise Ada County Idaho, USA

Mary Anne Surman Kline
Birth: Apr. 30, 1850 Horspath
Death: Feb. 15, 1900 Galion Crawford County Ohio, USA

Carrie Elizabeth Surman Burrows
Birth: Jul. 21, 1857
Death: Jan. 6, 1928
Deceased was born in Hamilton City, Ont., July 21 1857 and was 70 years of age last July. She came to the United States with her parents, when but five years of age and lived in Ohio.

William M. Surman
Birth: Apr. 23, 1859, Canada
Death: Apr. 11, 1916, USA

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V2KR-6MF
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V2LJ-W89
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NQYR-BYD
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NQT8-9SZ

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XDBN-N62
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XDBN-QL4
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XX42-WMN

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XX4B-RXH
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XDBV-LZ9

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F66R-8P1 [with image link]
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F66R-GMC [with image link]


Emigration dates at this time are very difficult.
Immigration dates are a bit better, but still not good.

Canadian records
Complete nominal rolls of immigrants to Canada before 1865 do not exist. Only a few passenger lists have survived...
Many immigrants to Canada came from the United States, or from Europe via American ports. Before 1908, immigrants could freely cross the Canada-United States border to enter Canada; there are therefore no files for immigrants who came to Canada by this route before 1908.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/immigrants/021017-3000-e.html

UK records
The majority of inward passenger lists from 1878 to 1960 and outward passenger lists from 1890 to 1960 have survived (see below). There are very few records in The National Archives of passengers before 1878.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/passengers.htm

US records
St. Albans District Manifest Records of Aliens Arriving from Foreign Contiguous Territory. Washington, DC, USA: National Archives Record Service, 1986. (Family History Library film numbers listed below.) The Family History Library has more than 1,000 rolls of microfilm that include Soundex (phonetic index) cards and original manifests giving detailed information pertaining to border crossings. Crossings from Maine to Washington state are included between 1895 and 1915.
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Canada_Emigration_and_Immigration

It seems there are 3 pairs of dates in question - firstly, Henry emigrated to Canada. Some time later, Martha and the kids left to join him.
The gap between these two events could be as little as a couple of months - the longest gap I've seen was 3 y, but it wasn't at all unusual for someone to go out first, and get accomodation and employment sorted before the rest of the family joined him.
It usually was the head of the h/h who went first, although in my dad's family, it was his cousin who went first and was joined the following year (6m later) by his siblings and parents.

We have the date of Martha's passage thru NY, but not the emigration date, nor the immigration date. I think there was no rail connection betwween NY & Hamilton in 1856, so she probably travelled by water.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:27RX-T57 [with image link]
Martha Sunnan
New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1891
birth: 1818 England
immigration: 1856 New York City, New York, United States
Joseph Sunnan birth: 1840 England
Thomas Sunnan birth: 1842 England
James Sunnan birth: 1844 England
George Sunnan birth: 1847 England
Maryanna Sunnan birth: 1849 England

From findagrave, we know
Carrie Elizabeth was born 21/7/1857 in Hailton ON and William was born 23/4/1859 in Canada.
It's likely Wm was b in Elma Twp, Perth Co ON a couple of km SW of Newry, as that was where the family was for the 1861 Ontario census.
The nominal day for this census was 14/1/1861 - they were probably enumerated a couple of weeks later.


1861 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQWD-9DH
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4391951_00618.pdf
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4391951_00619.pdf
[Hy 45;Mart 45;Jos 20;Thos 18;Jas 16;Geo 15;MA 11;Eliz 4;Wm 1.
Elma Twp is abt 50km NW of Kitchener, centred on Newry: it's 9m W-E, from county line to past Donegal, and 12m S-N from Monkton to Listowel]
Looking in the left margin, we see VERSO OF PREVIOUS SHEET BLANK applying to both these sheets - if you want to see a non-blank verso, there's one at:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4391951_00615.pdf
Certification: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4391951_00613.pdf so checked by the district commissioner 2/4/1861

Ten lines before Henry is Robert Lang (Conc 11 Lot 14)
Eight lines after Wm is Thomas Kitchen (Conc 12 Lot 10)
Since there is at least one farmer's family between the Surmans & each of the two farmers I've named, it's clear the Surmans are somewhere on Lots 11-13 of Conc 11 or 12, so somewhere along 3/4 m of road.
In Elma Twp, a 100 acre lot is 20 x 50 chains (80 chns=1 mile).
Normally, concession strips are twice as wide, but in Elma, the N part of a normal Conc 6 is labelled as Conc 10, & the S part of a normal Conc 6 is labelled as Conc 11, etc.

Here's an 1880s conc map for Elma:
http://web.library.mcgill.ca/Countyatlas/Images/Maps/TownshipMaps/per-m-elma.jpg

On http://maps.google.com/ (satellite view) it's easy to pick out Lang's lot.
Look up Newry ON - travel S 1.25 m from there, and turn W. After 1 lot, the road kinks along Lang's frontage to avoid running thru the middle of a stream




So we know they were in Elma at the end of Jan 1861 and in OH by Dec 1863 for Martha's death.
Her gravestone only says 1863 - if Elizabeth found an 1864 obit, then a Dec death is very likely.

Thank you very much for the passenger info Margee-tidies things up nicely :-) :-)

An arrival in USA of Martha Surman aged 38. She has with her children Joseph, 16. Thomas, 14, James, 12, George, 9 and Maryanna, 7.

All Results
Martha Surman

in the New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Record Image View

Name: Martha Surman
Arrival Date: 7 Aug 1856
Birth Date: abt 1818
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination: Canada
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Victoria
Search Ship Database: Search for the Victoria in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

Yes Margee that is the one-I also realised after I posted that the child born in 1857 was born in the UsA so they must have migrated before then.

Many thanks for your help

An obit of daughter Carrie here with a photo:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=69764453&ref=acom

From the findagrave info, it seems they emigrated between 1851 and 1857, as Carrie was born in Hamilton, Ontario, 21 July 1857.

A photo of the gravestone here with extra info:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=12522228&ref=acom

Is this the death you mentioned?


Mrs Martha Surman

in the Ohio, Rutherford B. Hayes Presidential Center Obituary Index, 1810s-2013
Record Image Index-only record

Name: Mrs Martha Surman
Birth Date: 1819
Age at Death: 44
Death Date: 1863
Death Place: Ohio
Spouse: Henry
Other Source Information: Title: Wayne Co OH Burial Records; Location: Wayne County Public Library; Description: Wayne County, Ohio Burial Records (Evansville: Unigraphic, 1980); Details: 214
Notes: ROW 2, SOUTH TO NORTH
Notes continued: BURBANK CEMETERY, CONGRESS TWP., WAYNE CO, OHIO, 'MOTHER' RECORDED ON HEADSTON
Library Link: Order Copy

Thank you very much- think they must have left about 1860 ish as they are in the 1851 census but not the 1861

Name: Joseph Surman
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1840
Death Date: 28 Sep 1925
Cemetery: Harris Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Barada, Richardson County, Nebraska, USA
Has Bio?: Y
Spouse:
Father:
Mother:





1880

Name: Joseph Surman
Age: 40
Birth Year: abt 1840
Birthplace: England
Home in 1880: Union, Holt, Missouri
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Florence Surman
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: Farmer
Cannot read/write:

Blind:

Deaf and Dumb:

Otherwise disabled:

Idiotic or insane:

View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Surman 40
Florence Surman 28
Charles Surman 11
Arthur Surman 5


1900

Name: Joseph Seeman
[Joseph Surman]
Age: 60
Birth Date: Mar 1840
Birthplace: England
Home in 1900: Barada, Richardson, Nebraska
Race: White
Gender: Male
>>>Immigration Year: 1856
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Florence Seeman
Marriage Year: 1867
Years Married: 33
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Seeman 60
Florence Seeman 48
Charles Seeman 32
Arthur Seeman 25
Bessie Seeman 18
William Seeman 16



Joseph Surman

in the 1910 United States Federal Census


Name: Joseph Surman
Age in 1910: 70
Birth Year: abt 1840
Birthplace: England
Home in 1910: Barada, Richardson, Nebraska
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Flora Surman
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Surman 70
Flora Surman 58
[38]
Charly F Surman 42
Bessie Surman 28
Wm J Surman 26
Source Citation






1920

Name: Joseph Sherman
[Joseph Surman]
Age: 79
Birth Year: abt 1841
Birthplace: England
Home in 1920: Barada, Richardson, Nebraska
House Number: Farm
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Florence Sherman
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Native Tongue: English
Able to Speak English: Yes
Occupation: Farmer
Industry: Farm
Employment Field: Employer
Home Owned or Rented: Own
Home Free or Mortgaged: Free
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Sherman 79
Florence Sherman 69
Chas F Sherman 51
William Sherman 44

Name: George W Surman
Birth Date: 13 Apr 1848
Birth Place: Oxfordshire, England
Death Date: 9 Oct 1943
Death Place: Boise, Ada County, Idaho, USA
Cemetery: Morris Hill Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Boise, Ada County, Idaho, USA
Has Bio?: Y
Spouse: Harriet Marie Surman
Father:
Mother:
URL: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-...


1940

Name: George W Snowman
[George W Surman]
Age: 92
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birthplace: England
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Father-in-law (Father)
Home in 1940: Westerville, Franklin, Ohio
Map of Home in 1940: View Map
Street: Vine Street
House Number: 226
Inferred Residence in 1935: Pocatello, Ohio
Residence in 1935: Pocatello, Ohio
Citizenship: Naturalized
Sheet Number: 3A
Occupation: Coreductor
Industry: Railroad
Attended School or College: No
Highest Grade Completed: Elementary school, 3rd grade
Class of Worker: R
Weeks Worked in 1939: 0
Income: 0
Income Other Sources: 0
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Phillippi 58
Grace Phillippi 65
George W Snowman 92

Says 1868 on this record. Can't be correct if Martha died 1863 Ohio.

Name: Henry Surman
Age: 81
Birth Date: Jun 1818
Birthplace: England
Home in 1900: Galion Ward 4, Crawford, Ohio
Race: White
Gender: Male
>>Immigration Year: 1868
Relation to Head of House: Father in Law (Father)
[Father-in-law (Father)]
Marital Status: Widowed
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
J W Kline 51
Greatha V Kline 15
Willie A Kline 20
Henry Surman 81
Anna Boyd 32

Is this him ?


England & Wales, Criminal Registers


Name:
Henry Surman

Age:16

Date of Trial:1 Mar 1838

Trial Year:1838

Location of Trial:Hampshire, England

Sentence: Imprisonment 1 month

Crime: Larceny

For ref from http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=12522228

Henry Surman


Birth: Jun. 13, 1818
Horspath
South Oxfordshire District
Oxfordshire, England
Death: Oct. 10, 1904
Galion
Crawford County
Ohio, USA

h/o Martha Surman

Family links:
Parents:
Thomas Surman (1782 - 1850)
Mary Sheldon Surman (1784 - 1851)

Spouse:
Martha Kimber Surman (1819 - 1863) Death: 1863
Ohio, USA

Children:
Joseph Surman (1840 - 1925)*
George W Surman (1848 - 1943)*
Mary Anne Surman Kline (1850 - 1900)*
Carrie Elizabeth Surman Burrows (1857 - 1928)*
William M. Surman (1859 - 1916)*

*Calculated relationship

Burial:
Burbank Cemetery
Burbank
Wayne County
Ohio, USA

Maintained by: John Surman
Originally Created by: peggy babbs
Record added: Nov 27, 2005
Find A Grave Memorial# 12522581

I would appreciate a lookup

Henry Surman{1818 Oxfordshire} with wife Martha {1819 Oxfordshire}- plus children emigrated to the USA between 1851 & 1864 I would like to know when if possible ?

Martha died in 1864 in Ohio and an Obit comes up but I cannot access it :-(